[sixrings]

I wonder if the PC's recent announcement of a future midtown GO line on the CPKC tracks would kill off any need for this extension.

Might give Bonnie Crombie an opportunity to present a different, competitive transit vision from Ford's.

They can’t even get the Milton line right and I’m supposed to believe in a midtown line. As much as a GO branch to STC made more sense than the danforth extension I can understand the skepticism and push for a subway.

 

[mossynukes]

As much as a GO branch to STC made more sense than the danforth extension

Care to elaborate???

 

[sixrings]

They could have made a GO train divert to STC for far less money than the danforth extension.

Care to elaborate???

 

[mossynukes]

They could have made a GO train divert to STC for far less money than the danforth extension.

Fortunately, whether or not an option costs less than another isn't the province's sole metric in determining which of the two "makes more sense". Aside from the cost, I don't see any way you can argue for a Stouffville extension to STC making more sense than the Line 2 extension, at least certainly not from the perspective of those who would actively utilize said extensions.

 

[T3G]

Fortunately, whether or not an option costs less than another isn't the province's sole metric in determining which of the two "makes more sense". Aside from the cost, I don't see any way you can argue for a Stouffville extension to STC making more sense than the Line 2 extension, at least certainly not from the perspective of those who would actively utilize said extensions.

If the argument is that the people of Scarborough need to get downtown and the transfer at Kennedy was bad, the GO train would deliver considerable time savings as compared to the subway, which is for local travel and also forces an additional transfer at Bloor-Yonge. And for people who required local travel on line 2, well, Kennedy station was still there. And the SSE was not based on which transit options made more sense, it was just the culmination of Rob Ford's downtown vs. suburbs culture war, there was no thought put into it in an official capacity.

That being said, was this actually an idea anyone legitimately explored? This is the first I'm hearing of this.

 

[JSF-1]

That being said, was this actually an idea anyone legitimately explored? This is the first I'm hearing of this.

I know the idea had been floated around during the latter days of the SmartTrack era but I don't recall it ever being discussed at a high level. I don't think anyone with any power or influence was actively talking about it. By that point the SSE had been coronated as the solution to Scarborough's transit problems and the powers that be were working overtime to end any and all discussion of possible alternatives. If the idea was proposed at a high level by that point in time it would have been shot down immediately so as to not rock the boat anymore and set off another round of arguments over the SSE.

 

[sixrings]

The idea was floated around but Scarborough wasn’t having it. It was subway or nothing.

As for smart track. I don’t care what you want to call it. It was sold on the idea you could get it up and running quickly and affordably and with ttc fare pricing. Not one of those promises fulfilled. So I understand the preference for subway. And as a MCC resident I too have more faith in it then any bi pass being built.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If the argument is that the people of Scarborough need to get downtown and the transfer at Kennedy was bad, the GO train would deliver considerable time savings as compared to the subway, which is for local travel and also forces an additional transfer at Bloor-Yonge. And for people who required local travel on line 2, well, Kennedy station was still there. And the SSE was not based on which transit options made more sense, it was just the culmination of Rob Ford's downtown vs. suburbs culture war, there was no thought put into it in an official capacity.

That being said, was this actually an idea anyone legitimately explored? This is the first I'm hearing of this.

And thanks to Eglinton East, there will still be a transfer there anyway.

Not sure we should do this until we see if CP is willing to budge on Milton.

 

[T3G]

And thanks to Eglinton East, there will still be a transfer there anyway.

I don't follow. There was always going to be a transfer from the BD line to something else; it is physically impossible to go both east on Eglinton and north towards STC.

Not sure we should do this until we see if CP is willing to budge on Milton.

What, a private, multi-billion dollar business doing anything that might hurt their business for the betterment of society? Dream on.

If we offer them billions and billions of dollars and build their bypass for them, then we can have all the 2 way all day service on the Milton line that we want.

 

[crs1026]

If we offer them billions and billions of dollars and build their bypass for them, then we can have all the 2 way all day service on the Milton line that we want.

Exactly. CPKC won't say no, they will just set the price absurdly high, and make demands that are defensible but hard or costly to meet.

- Payl

 

[turbanplanner]

They could have made a GO train divert to STC for far less money than the danforth extension.

Can't wait for a certain somebody to criticize me for sharing my own experiences but I spoke to several people nearly 10 years ago who have lived in Scarborough their whole lives and they felt Scarborough had been cheated and wanted a subway even if it didn't serve as many people

 

[T3G]

There is certainly room - much room - for improvement on the Scarborough transit file, but perhaps the people of Scarborough could do with a reality check. Once you've used transit in York Region, Mississauga, Milton, or even Etobicoke, Scarborough's looks above average.

These types of people only do harm to their cause. If there is a compelling argument for transit improvements, surely that can be offered in a rational, fact based way, rather than appealing to how badly they've been victimized (by whom? For every victim there has to be a perpetrator). But hey, that was the extent of Rob Ford's argument for the SSE and it paid off, so why start using facts and data now? Emotions are the best way to design public works projects.

 

[JSF-1]

There is certainly room - much room - for improvement on the Scarborough transit file, but perhaps the people of Scarborough could do with a reality check. Once you've used transit in York Region, Mississauga, Milton, or even Etobicoke, Scarborough's looks above average.

These types of people only do harm to their cause. If there is a compelling argument for transit improvements, surely that can be offered in a rational, fact based way, rather than appealing to how badly they've been victimized (by whom? For every victim there has to be a perpetrator). But hey, that was the extent of Rob Ford's argument for the SSE and it paid off, so why start using facts and data now? Emotions are the best way to design public works projects.

I certainly doesn't need to be an either or, as Scarborough definitely needs improvements for both local transit and GO service. Better service on the LSE and Stouffville Lines as well as better accessibility to them would certainly help. For example I think cutting the Lawrence East stop on the Stouffville Line is a big mistake that was only done to create a captive market for the SSE. Metrolinx stated there fear was that the GO stop could cannibalize riders from the SSE station; which is another way of saying if we build it people would use it. This doesn;t negate the need for something like the SSE but the all-or-nothing approach we took with the SSE has certainly hurt Scarborough's transit future in other ways. Scarborough does need better local transit, but it also needs better GO service (frequency and accessibility) it's just no one in the political world cares to look at transit planning from a holistic view and instead views each project in a vacuum and not as an integrated network.

 

[turbanplanner]

There is certainly room - much room - for improvement on the Scarborough transit file, but perhaps the people of Scarborough could do with a reality check. Once you've used transit in York Region, Mississauga, Milton, or even Etobicoke, Scarborough's looks above average.

These types of people only do harm to their cause. If there is a compelling argument for transit improvements, surely that can be offered in a rational, fact based way, rather than appealing to how badly they've been victimized (by whom? For every victim there has to be a perpetrator). But hey, that was the extent of Rob Ford's argument for the SSE and it paid off, so why start using facts and data now? Emotions are the best way to design public works projects.

I 100% agree with you, as for the rationale, I think it’s 50% North York getting a Sheppard line and then an extension from downsview (but nothing for the east end) and 50% being promised an upgrade for the RT and that never materializing, how long has the Kingston Road BRT been an idea?

 

[nfitz]

I don't follow. There was always going to be a transfer from the BD line to something else; it is physically impossible to go both east on Eglinton and north towards STC.

Where two lines intersect, there's going to be transers. But not as much when two different lines terminate at the same intermediate station on a third line. There were (at least) two different options considered where there'd be two lines crossing at Kennedy.