[nfitz]

The north mainline is definitely promising for medium-distance travel, but based on the penny-pinching rhetoric coming from Metrolinx's latest GO Expansion announcements it's safe to assume they will spend just enough on the line between Kitchener and Bramalea to accommodate the planned GO service, and not a penny more. There definitely won't be spare capacity available for Via.

Ideally Metrolinx and Via should be collaborating to create an effective passenger rail system in southern Ontario that improves both regional rail (GO) and intercity rail (Via), rather than ignoring improvements to the latter. But in this particular case I think it does make sense for GO to fully take the Toronto-Kitchener-London corridor over. Toronto-Kitchener express trains can be extended to London without any impact on capacity on the CN mainline between Bramalea and Georgetown, or the single-tracked GO line between Georgetown and Kitchener. Via could affordably expand capacity on the south mainline by adding second platforms at stations, enabling them to use the double track that already exists rather than being bottlenecked onto the single platforms at Ingersoll, Woodstock and Brantford stations. That would enable them to add a couple trains per day, with service via Brantford to both Sarnia and Windsor.

You've already seen the content of my article on the case for GO Transit taking an increased role in intercity rail in Ontario, but I'll link it here again for others' reference:
https://ontariotrafficman.wordpress.com/2024/05/26/the-case-for-regional-express-trains-in-ontario/

I think you forgot about the Oshawa extension line station(s?) east of Oshawa - isn't there at least one for Bowmanville? I'm not sure it's possible for that many lines to stop at Front, especially the Lakeshore services. Renaming the Lakeshore lines by adding "Toronto" to them is problematic, given they are also subway stations for the Ontario line; at the same time the "East Harbour" and "West Harbour" names may create confusion. Isn't there supposed to be a Concord station between Downsview Park and Rutherford to transfer to 407 services; it's been on various plans for decades.

There's a lot of talk among the province and feds about a Milton RER service - perhaps there should be express here too. (and perhaps a Galt stop).

Personally I'd add a Lawrence East station on the Stouffville line. Maybe even one at Ellesmere one day if it continues to densify there.

No love for the Richmond Hill line! I have mixed opinions on that one ... maybe just convert it into an extension for Line 1 north of the 407.

 

[reaperexpress]

I think you forgot about the Oshawa extension line station(s?) east of Oshawa - isn't there at least one for Bowmanville?

Bowmanville is peak only as far as I'm aware.

I'm not sure it's possible for that many lines to stop at Front, especially the Lakeshore services.

It is if the flyunder is removed, which is an option being considered at the moment.

Renaming the Lakeshore lines by adding "Toronto" to them is problematic, given they are also subway stations for the Ontario line; at the same time the "East Harbour" and "West Harbour" names may create confusion.

Local transit stations typically omit the city name. For example Via current says "Toronto Union Station" while TTC says "Union". GO is planning to say "Kitchener Central station" while GRT already says "central station".

Isn't there supposed to be a Concord station between Downsview Park and Rutherford to transfer to 407 services; it's been on various plans for decades.

Yes and I've been saying for years that station is a good idea thanks to its Viva and GO bus connections. But it's been proposed for decades and nobody seems to be interested in actually building it.

There's a lot of talk among the province and feds about a Milton RER service - perhaps there should be express here too. (and perhaps a Galt stop).

Most plausible option seems to be a single tracked line with passing tracks to enable 30 min service. That does not enable all day express service. This map is not a pie in the sky fantasy, it is a number of minor adjustments to existing plans.

Personally I'd add a Lawrence East station on the Stouffville line. Maybe even one at Ellesmere one day if it continues to densify there.

There are no plans for a Lawrence East station anymore since a Lawrence East was added to the Line 2 extension further east.

No love for the Richmond Hill line! I have mixed opinions on that one ... maybe just convert it into an extension for Line 1 north of the 407.

Richmond Hill is not planned for AD2W as far as we're aware, though it was included in AD2W on the noise docs. I chose tonleave it out because it's not fast enough to compete against Line 1 and 3 off peak.

 

[ethan.l.cecc]

Bowmanville is peak only as far as I'm aware.

According to the Bowmanville Extension web page, service to Bowmanville will be all day, though only hourly during off-peak (https://www.metrolinx.com/en/projec...sion/what-were-building/bowmanville-extension) Though I don't know what your requirements were for counting it as being served off-peak

 

[reaperexpress]

According to the Bowmanville Extension web page, service to Bowmanville will be all day, though only hourly during off-peak (https://www.metrolinx.com/en/projec...sion/what-were-building/bowmanville-extension) Though I don't know what your requirements were for counting it as being served off-peak

I showed all off peak services, so based on that doc I should have drawn a thin line as far as Bowmanville

 

[EnviroTO]

Greater Toronto Area Transit System Plan for 2050.

Since SVG couldn't be uploaded I captured screenshots from the west side and east sides of the map.

This is the legend that goes with the map.

 

[micheal_can]

Greater Toronto Area Transit System Plan for 2050.
View attachment 623537


Since SVG couldn't be uploaded I captured screenshots from the west side and east sides of the map.
View attachment 623541View attachment 623542


This is the legend that goes with the map.
View attachment 623540

Overall,I like this. The extension of Line 4 towards Durham is a good idea. My only concern is the circle of Line 3.If a problem happens it can really affect this quickly.

 

[Undead]

Line 4 extended toward underground to Durham never has and never will be a good idea.

 

[micheal_can]

Line 4 extended toward underground to Durham never has and never will be a good idea.

What about above ground or elevated?

 

[jcam]

I quite like it, but one that is conspicuous by its absence is something up Jane. I would've thought that a good western route for Ontario Line, as its one of the highest performing corridors from the City's last assessment (north of Eglinton at least)

 

[Pyeknu]

Noting all the plans for Niagara when it comes to GO expansion (either via the Grimsby Sub of CN or the Hamilton Sub of CP/KC), I want to introduce you to a proposed viaduct that would cross the Welland Canal at the area of Bridge 6 (the Twin Flight Locks) to help any rapid express transit from Niagara Falls to Union avoid ship traffic delays. It's a five-part map series I did a couple years ago on Deviant Art here:

Merritton Viaduct (Introduction and West Section) by Pyeknu on DeviantArt

www.deviantart.com

Ignore the other comments about branch lines for a local Niagara LRT, though.

 

[micheal_can]

I am watching a show called "if We Built It Today" Episode: "Transcontinental Railroad"
In the series, they take something historical and ask what if they were to build something like it today. In this episode, they imagine what if they built a HSR across America.

If we were to spin it to Canada, much of what is mentioned in the show would apply. Things like phases, conventional rails, and using existing technology makes the most sense.

With the political atmosphere in a mess, there is no telling if we will see anything. Now, if we imagine that whomever gets in decides to push ahead with HSR in Canada, here are the phases that to me makes sense:

Phase 1A: Ottawa - Montreal. This connects 2 major cities, and 2 of the most populous provinces in Canada.
Phase 1B: YYC - Calgary - Banff. Banff has over 3 million visitors a year, and with Calgary being the closest major city and airport to it, it makes sense. Calgary is also the largest city by population in AB, the 3rd highest population.

Phase 2A: Ottawa - Toronto. Connecting the ''existing" HSR to the largest city in Canada. It would likely use the Havelock Sub.
Phase 2B: YYC (Calgary) - Edmonton. This connects the 'existing' HSR to the capital of AB

Phase 3A Toronto - Niagara Falls. This connects to the area that sees 12 million visitors a year. It could be assumed that if Amtrak did HSR, this line could connect to it.
Phase 3B: Toronto - K/W - London. This would connect the largest city in SWO to Toronto.
Phase 3C: Edmonton - Jasper. This would connect the airport in Edmonton, as well as the rest of the HSR in AB to Jasper NP, which sees about 2.5 million visitors a year.

Phase 4A: London - Windsor.This would allow the connection to Amtrak service to Chicago.
Phase 4B:Montreal - Trois Rivieres - Quebec City. Connects Qiuebec city to Montreal via the largest city between them.
Phase 4C Vancouver - Abbotsford - Chilliwack. This would connect the major cities on the Lower Mainland
Phase 4D: Regina - Saskatoon. Connects the 2 largest cities in Saskatoon.

Phase 5A Halifax - Moncton - Saint John/Fredericton. Connects the major cities of the Maritime Provinces.
Phase 5B: Calgary - Medicine Hat - Swift Current - Moose Jaw - Regina. Connects the SK and AB HSR networks through the more populous section.
Phase 5C Regina - Brandon - Winnipeg - Connects the largest city in MB to the rest of the Prairie Provinces HSR network
Phase 5D Toronto - North Bay - Sudbury - SSM. Connects the largest cities in Northern ON with the HSR network of Eastern Canada.

Phase 6A: Fredericton - Quebec City. Connects the Eastern and Maritime networks.
Phase 6B: Winnipeg - Kenora - Dryden - Thunder Bay. Connects the Prairie network with the largest city in NWO.
Phase 6C Chilliwack - Kamloops - Banff. Connects the Prairie network with the Western network.

Phase 7A Thunder Bay - SSM. connects the 2 networks together. This is one I am not sure of the routing as there really isn't much between and it is a long way. Maybe some town along the way has a massive boom that causes crazy population growth.
Phase 7B: Vancouver - Naniamo - Victoria. By this time, some sort of bridge or tunnel may be possible.

If we use the California HSR as a way to gauge things, it will take them about 15 years. Lets assume we learn from them and can do it 10 years a phase, this would take 70 years and would have the legacy doing the first Transcontinental railway in Canada has had. The expansions assume that they would be extension on whatever is existing, or where is easy to build and the population may be there. There is also an assumption that populations grow throughout Canada's cities in much the same growth we have seen in the last~75-100 years.

Another important assumption on this is that the initial phases are built with the same technology. Everything from track gauge, power source, and control technologies would need to be the same. The same trains should fit and work throughout the country.This would make it much more affordable in the long run.

How much would it cost? Well, using the CHSR as a base, it will cost them about $80 million per km.

Phase 1A: 200 km
Phase 1B: 150 km

Phase 2A: 450 km.
Phase 2B: 300 km

Phase 3A 120 km
Phase 3B: 200 km
Phase 3C: 365 km

Phase 4A: 190 km
Phase 4B: 270 km
Phase 4C 100 km
Phase 4D: 260 km

Phase 5A 415 km + 180 km
Phase 5B: 755 km
Phase 5C 570 km
Phase 5D 800 km

Phase 6A: 590 km
Phase 6B: 700 km
Phase 6C 750 km

Phase 7A 700 km
Phase 7B: 200+ km

Total distance: 8,855 km.
Total estimated costs in 2024 dollars:$708 Billion

 

[asey20]

I am watching a show called "if We Built It Today" Episode: "Transcontinental Railroad"
In the series, they take something historical and ask what if they were to build something like it today. In this episode, they imagine what if they built a HSR across America.

If we were to spin it to Canada, much of what is mentioned in the show would apply. Things like phases, conventional rails, and using existing technology makes the most sense.

With the political atmosphere in a mess, there is no telling if we will see anything. Now, if we imagine that whomever gets in decides to push ahead with HSR in Canada, here are the phases that to me makes sense:

Phase 1A: Ottawa - Montreal. This connects 2 major cities, and 2 of the most populous provinces in Canada.
Phase 1B: YYC - Calgary - Banff. Banff has over 3 million visitors a year, and with Calgary being the closest major city and airport to it, it makes sense. Calgary is also the largest city by population in AB, the 3rd highest population.

Phase 2A: Ottawa - Toronto. Connecting the ''existing" HSR to the largest city in Canada. It would likely use the Havelock Sub.
Phase 2B: YYC (Calgary) - Edmonton. This connects the 'existing' HSR to the capital of AB

Phase 3A Toronto - Niagara Falls. This connects to the area that sees 12 million visitors a year. It could be assumed that if Amtrak did HSR, this line could connect to it.
Phase 3B: Toronto - K/W - London. This would connect the largest city in SWO to Toronto.
Phase 3C: Edmonton - Jasper. This would connect the airport in Edmonton, as well as the rest of the HSR in AB to Jasper NP, which sees about 2.5 million visitors a year.

Phase 4A: London - Windsor.This would allow the connection to Amtrak service to Chicago.
Phase 4B:Montreal - Trois Rivieres - Quebec City. Connects Qiuebec city to Montreal via the largest city between them.
Phase 4C Vancouver - Abbotsford - Chilliwack. This would connect the major cities on the Lower Mainland
Phase 4D: Regina - Saskatoon. Connects the 2 largest cities in Saskatoon.

Phase 5A Halifax - Moncton - Saint John/Fredericton. Connects the major cities of the Maritime Provinces.
Phase 5B: Calgary - Medicine Hat - Swift Current - Moose Jaw - Regina. Connects the SK and AB HSR networks through the more populous section.
Phase 5C Regina - Brandon - Winnipeg - Connects the largest city in MB to the rest of the Prairie Provinces HSR network
Phase 5D Toronto - North Bay - Sudbury - SSM. Connects the largest cities in Northern ON with the HSR network of Eastern Canada.

Phase 6A: Fredericton - Quebec City. Connects the Eastern and Maritime networks.
Phase 6B: Winnipeg - Kenora - Dryden - Thunder Bay. Connects the Prairie network with the largest city in NWO.
Phase 6C Chilliwack - Kamloops - Banff. Connects the Prairie network with the Western network.

Phase 7A Thunder Bay - SSM. connects the 2 networks together. This is one I am not sure of the routing as there really isn't much between and it is a long way. Maybe some town along the way has a massive boom that causes crazy population growth.
Phase 7B: Vancouver - Naniamo - Victoria. By this time, some sort of bridge or tunnel may be possible.

If we use the California HSR as a way to gauge things, it will take them about 15 years. Lets assume we learn from them and can do it 10 years a phase, this would take 70 years and would have the legacy doing the first Transcontinental railway in Canada has had. The expansions assume that they would be extension on whatever is existing, or where is easy to build and the population may be there. There is also an assumption that populations grow throughout Canada's cities in much the same growth we have seen in the last~75-100 years.

Another important assumption on this is that the initial phases are built with the same technology. Everything from track gauge, power source, and control technologies would need to be the same. The same trains should fit and work throughout the country.This would make it much more affordable in the long run.

How much would it cost? Well, using the CHSR as a base, it will cost them about $80 million per km.

Phase 1A: 200 km
Phase 1B: 150 km

Phase 2A: 450 km.
Phase 2B: 300 km

Phase 3A 120 km
Phase 3B: 200 km
Phase 3C: 365 km

Phase 4A: 190 km
Phase 4B: 270 km
Phase 4C 100 km
Phase 4D: 260 km

Phase 5A 415 km + 180 km
Phase 5B: 755 km
Phase 5C 570 km
Phase 5D 800 km

Phase 6A: 590 km
Phase 6B: 700 km
Phase 6C 750 km

Phase 7A 700 km
Phase 7B: 200+ km

Total distance: 8,855 km.
Total estimated costs in 2024 dollars:$708 Trillion

$708 billion*

 

[micheal_can]

$708 billion*

I'll correct it.

 

[Tyler Friesen]

Ok, so here's a map I've been working on for a bit, set in some arbitrary date in the future (but also not any sort of "final" future - there are lots of ways that this could still reasonably expand). It's obviously not designed for wayfinding, what with all the missing station names, but I did make the call to tweak the overall system wayfinding to separate the LRT and subway lines. This map is exclusively for subway lines, and things like the Finch LRT or Eglinton East LRT would be grouped in with the streetcars (in this fake world I've got going in my head, of course). Anyways, I realize that some of what I've got here contradicts what Metrolinx wants to do (as far as I know they want line 3 to head west after Exhibition?), but I just thought it was interesting to imagine how another downtown subway line might play into a broader network. I've also imagined that the surface section of line 5 is properly grade seperated (or at the very least a couple of the close stops are taken out), and I've thrown in the midtown GO line for good measure, just to illustrate how the GO lines could funcion as express versions of the subway lines.

If anyone has questions or notes, please leave them! I'm super curious to know what others think of the setup I've got going on here, and how feasible the different elements may or may not be.

 

[Bojaxs]

Ok, so here's a map I've been working on for a bit, set in some arbitrary date in the future (but also not any sort of "final" future - there are lots of ways that this could still reasonably expand). It's obviously not designed for wayfinding, what with all the missing station names, but I did make the call to tweak the overall system wayfinding to separate the LRT and subway lines. This map is exclusively for subway lines, and things like the Finch LRT or Eglinton East LRT would be grouped in with the streetcars (in this fake world I've got going in my head, of course). Anyways, I realize that some of what I've got here contradicts what Metrolinx wants to do (as far as I know they want line 3 to head west after Exhibition?), but I just thought it was interesting to imagine how another downtown subway line might play into a broader network. I've also imagined that the surface section of line 5 is properly grade seperated (or at the very least a couple of the close stops are taken out), and I've thrown in the midtown GO line for good measure, just to illustrate how the GO lines could funcion as express versions of the subway lines.

If anyone has questions or notes, please leave them! I'm super curious to know what others think of the setup I've got going on here, and how feasible the different elements may or may not be.
View attachment 625252

I'm pretending all the lines are subways.

This is great! This is the subway network Toronto needs.

Minor things I would change;

- Extend line 5 to the Eglington GO station.
- Extend western portion of line 3 up to the Sheppard line.
- Sheppard line should continue straight instead of dipping south, west of Sheppard-Allen in order to connect with a future Bolton GO line at Sheppard & Rivalda Rd. Afterwards head south towards the airport.
- If the Richmond Hill line were rerouted onto the Leaside Spur/ Don Mills trail, then you could connect the RH line with the Ontario line over in Thorncliffe Park.

With your suggestion that both ends of the Ontario line be extended up to the Eglinton line, then lines 3 & 5 effectively create an orbital route going around the downtown core. It's a real shame that the Eglinton crosstown isn't being constructed to the same standards as the Ontario line.