[Northern Light]

The thing that gets me about how unassailable the heritage element of the shed supposedly is...it's only 25 years older than Union subway station, which no one seemed to mind gut renoing for functional reasons around the same time

?

Union Station's Great Hall was largely preserved/restored, with some bits remaining to be done.

The heritage of the East and West Halls was kept in tact, as was the lower concourse.....

Where is this 'gut job'?

The only portions of Union that were gutted were the Bay GO Concourse which was altered beyond recognition in the 1970s and looks more historical now than before.........and the York Concourse, which wasn't all that public in recent years.

****

I'm not in favour of having saved the Bush Shed.............but to suggest people sponsored 'gutting' the main building and then saved the shed..........is.....inconsistent with the work that occurred.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The thing that gets me about how unassailable the heritage element of the shed supposedly is...it's only 25 years older than Union subway station, which no one seemed to mind gut renoing for functional reasons around the same time

The problem was that it was declared a National Historic Site by Parks Canada en masse.(the Headhouse, shed, moat, teamways) in 1975 as a response to the outcry against the proposal that would see *everything* demolished - this move really limited the freedom of action.

?

Union Station's Great Hall was largely preserved/restored, with some bits remaining to be done.

The heritage of the East and West Halls was kept in tact, as was the lower concourse.....

Where is this 'gut job'?

The only portions of Union that were gutted were the Bay GO Concourse which was altered beyond recognition in the 1970s and looks more historical now than before.........and the York Concourse, which wasn't all that public in recent years.

****

I'm not in favour of having saved the Bush Shed.............but to suggest people sponsored 'gutting' the main building and then saved the shed..........is.....inconsistent with the work that occurred.

I think he meant the subway station.

AoD

 

[Northern Light]

The problem was that it was declared a National Historic Site by Parks Canada en masse.(the Headhouse, shed, moat, teamways) in 1975 as a response to the outcry against the proposal that would see *everything* demolished - this move really limited the freedom of action.

I think he meant the subway station.

AoD

Fair enough; though that too was in nothing like its original state before the last reno.

Its yellow vitrolite had long been covered or removed. When did that reno happend? I'm guessing early to mid 80s?

 

[UrbanAffair]

I'd offer the term 'pragmatic preservation' for what seems to be a mostly unified view from people here. (Kudos to us all, I suppose!)

Heritage is important. Utility is also important. Attractive public spaces are important. Union Station's great all checks all the boxes. The bush shed doesn't really check any of them. I can't imagine any first time Toronto visitor is going to look at that ugly shed and be like, oh yeah that is just stunnnninng. Most likely they will ask, pragmatically, why the f would you keep that, next to that beautiful great hall.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I'd offer the term 'pragmatic preservation' for what seems to be a mostly unified view from people here. (Kudos to us all, I suppose!)

Heritage is important. Utility is also important. Attractive public spaces are important. Union Station's great all checks all the boxes. The bush shed doesn't really check any of them. I can't imagine any first time Toronto visitor is going to look at that ugly shed and be like, oh yeah that is just stunnnninng. Most likely they will ask, pragmatically, why the f would you keep that, next to that beautiful great hall.

The most ironic thing is spending umpteen millions to essentially rebuild the shed to the same miserable condition - so it wasn't even cheap.

AoD

 

[UrbanAffair]

True, though it does feel a little cleaner in there, or maybe that's just a placebo effect.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

True, though it does feel a little cleaner in there, or maybe that's just a placebo effect.

More like Stockholm Syndrome.

AoD

 

[T3G]

Heritage advocates don't always get everything they ask for, either. It's not a case of a narrow group of people hijacking the process.

I would say, looking around, that they seldom do.

There are lots of things of which one could accuse Toronto, but of being a city that puts especial value on its heritage... certainly not.

 

[nfitz]

I think he meant the subway station.

They literally said subway station. It's in the quote! (though initially misred it as well - in three different ways. But that says more about me than anything else.

Its yellow vitrolite had long been covered or removed. When did that reno happend? I'm guessing early to mid 80s?

I think they meant the 2000s adding second platform, rebuilding the first, and gutting the mezzanine.

 

[smallspy]

And would you have been able to completely redevelop the concourse and rearrange the tracks if not for the heritage status of the shed and VIA concourse?

AoD

Yes, but only at triple or quadruple the price of the project that actually happened. And maybe even more than that.

Dan

 

[ward10]

I think they meant the 2000s adding second platform, rebuilding the first, and gutting the mezzanine.

That's right. Sorry, thought it was pretty explicit. There's basically nothing visibly original about Union subway post 2010's-reno, except the streetcar loop. And that's an understandable thing for a working subway station whose capacity issues posed risks to the public

Designating Union a historic site is understandable, but also when you read it back in plain english, it kind of shows the issue right there. If we want rail transport to improve in this country, we have to treat the infrastructure as tools for today's and tomorrow's needs, not as memorials to a past zenith (of course it's possible in many palces to have both, as folks have said).

 

[WB62]

I'm not particularly taken by the glass box either.

The glass box itself is held back by the heritage sheds new lighting system. In no way am I complaining about the light boxes that were added 5 years ago, but their addition made the new canopy feel more constrained with how the light boxes impede the openness of the space. Not to mention the wires:

I’m definitely in the group that thinks the shed should have been removed… that opinion cemented in my mind the second I saw this:

But the improvements to platform level is going to be so significant that the old shed isn't going to feel as constraining as it does today.
With up to 2 to 3 times more platform entrances per widened platform, hundreds of people navigating around shed columns and into tiny staircases is going to be a thing of the past.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Yes, but only at triple or quadruple the price of the project that actually happened. And maybe even more than that.

Dan

As compared to what - doing the Union Station shed, atrium, concourse, USEP (and we haven't even added the unknown cost of track and platform reorganization, platform extensions, accessibility improvements, etc.) piecemeal? And the end product isn't even coherent - it's like baking in all the warts and limitations and hoping the next intervention will resolve the inadequacies of previous mistakes.

AoD

 

[goodcitywhenfinished]

But the improvements to platform level is going to be so significant that the old shed isn't going to feel as constraining as it does today.
With up to 2 to 3 times more platform entrances per widened platform, hundreds of people navigating around shed columns and into tiny staircases is going to be a thing of the past.

But will there be escalators?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

But will there be escalators?

Nevermind that - will the staircases be as awful as they are now?

AoD