[Bojaxs]

Having a couple of intermediary stops between Union and Pearson makes one express train not comparable to the other that will have one station between Paddington and Heathrow Central station? Two if you are travelling to the biggest terminal (Heathrow Terminal 5 station).

Last I checked, Terminal 2 is the airport. Trying to argue it's an intermediary stop between Paddington and Heathrow is being ingenuine. The Heathrow Express goes express to the airport from Paddington. Simple as. The UPX does not offer the same service. It's more comparable to the Elisabeth line.

"How many stops are on the Heathrow Express?"

Google Search

I've said twice above that I don't want the Union Pearson Express train to skip Bloor - I feel you aren't reading my posts if you asking questions like that. Skip Weston - fine; it already has a direct bus to Pearson.

My point is, if you're so concerned about UPX riders heading to the airport being inconvenienced by riders using the train for commuting purposes, then what better way to solve the problem than making the train express to Pearson? I'm not saying I support the idea. Just making a point. Everybody on the Heathrow Express is heading to the airport. No one uses it for commuting purposes.

 

[nfitz]

Is there actual non-anecdotal data to show that there are people travelling to and from the airport that can't get on a train because of commuters?

In the dozen or so times I've taken the UP Express to and from the airport this has never been an issue. If course that's anecdotal evidence.

I've had problems squeezing on at Bloor with luggage and small children. And that was pre-Covid!

I've certainly seen lines that are very long at Union, during major events. Didn't we have discussion a while ago that some people at Union heading to Pearson had to wait for later trains?

 

[crs1026]

There is nothing wrong with charging a premium fare for a premium service. The question is, what is the basic service that the premium service is differentiated from..

At the moment, the premium is worth it to non-airport passengers, apparently, so they don't have to wait until the half-hourly GO train departs.

That's an improvement over the past when non-airport passengers used to pay extra to take UP rather than wait for the hourly GO train. (I have done this myself after Jays games, and was glad I did)(and before there was weekend GO service)

Put GO on at 15 minute headways and the non-airport commuting problem on UP will go away. This should have happened before UP was ever introduced.

And then we can decide what the UP to airport trip is worth. Considering one can easily get to the airport from any of Union, Bloor, and Weston by TTC, the premium would be for convenience above the cost and time of a TTC trip, and possibly comparing to the time and attractiveness (or not) of Uber or Airport Limo.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

Last I checked, Terminal 2 is the airport. Trying to argue it's an intermediary stop between Paddington and Heathrow is being ingenuine. The Heathrow Express goes express to the airport from Paddington. Simple as. The UPX does not offer the same service. It's more comparable to the Elisabeth line.

It's not the service that's the issue. It's getting people to the airport - which is the only reason that the Pearson line exists.

Check the verb tense I used. Why ignore the Old Oak Common stop? Does that mean the Heathrow Express won't be an airport train when Old Oak Common opens?

One could argue that the Heathrow Express isn't even comparable, because it doesn't go downtown - or even get to the A5! If they ran if from the City or Docklands (which would have required additional tracks), do you think it wouldn't be stopping at Paddington?

The Airport Express in Hong Kong stops at both Kowloon and Tsing Yi. It has significantly higher fares to use it as a commuter service. Is it not an Airport Express?

My point is, if you're so concerned about UPX riders heading to the airport being inconvenienced by riders using the train for commuting purposes, then what better way to solve the problem than making the train express to Pearson?

You are asking a question for a third time (or are we up to fourth?), that I've already answered twice (or thrice). Why do you keep repeating the same question?

There is nothing wrong with charging a premium fare for a premium service. The question is, what is the basic service that the premium service is differentiated from.

The basic service is that on the service to Bramalea. The express airport service doesn't (won't) stop at King-Liberty, St. Clair/Weston, and Etobicoke North. It should skip Weston as far as I'm concerned once Mount Dennis opens.

Put GO on at 15 minute headways and the non-airport commuting problem on UP will go away. This should have happened before UP was ever introduced.

Well certainly by now - at least to Bramalea. And absolutely needs upgrades asap.

UP also should have had more trainsets, allowing both 3-car trains and 7.5 minute service. Had it been designed for commuters to use, then we'd have seen more cars and service a long time ago.

MetroStinx keeps saying there's no point acquiring more rolling stock because they'll upgrade soon to electrical. But in the meantime the timeframe for that, and airport upgrades, slips and slips and slips.

 

[smallspy]

A couple weeks ago, I rode the Elisabeth line in London to Terminal 2 at Heathrow. The train was difficult to board and was standing room only. It was crowded due to all the passengers with their luggage.

Then you made a mistake. You should have ridden Heathrow Express.

That's is the proper comparison to UPX, not the Elizabeth line.

Dan

 

[Bojaxs]

Then you made a mistake. You should have ridden Heathrow Express.

That's is the proper comparison to UPX, not the Elizabeth line.

Dan

The train I took on the Elisabeth line terminated at Heathrow. It didn't go pass the airport towards Reading. It made intermediary stops on the way to the airport similar to the UPX does on it's way to Pearson.

Heathrow Express goes straight from Paddington to the airport. The UPX does not offer an express service.

What am I getting wrong here?

 

[bearcat]

Then you made a mistake. You should have ridden Heathrow Express.

That's is the proper comparison to UPX, not the Elizabeth line.

Dan

I think there is enough nuance here that it's not quite correct to say either is a proper comparison imo. UP Express, Elizabeth line and Heathrow Express do not exist in a vacuum. In terms of the stopping pattern the UP Express is closer to Elizabeth Line, while perhaps it's purpose is to be like Heathrow Express. The broader context of other high capacity links available to the airport also needs to be taken into account. There is no Piccadilly line equivalent in Toronto.

 

[WB62]

The express airport service doesn't (won't) stop at King-Liberty, St. Clair/Westo

Never say never…

 

[nfitz]

What am I getting wrong here?

The spelling of HRH - our late queen. There's no 's' in Elizabeth.

Seriously though - you are missing that the Heathrow branch of the Elizabeth Line has 6 commuter stations between Paddington and Heathrow Central. And that Heathrow Express is a private non-franchised operation owned by the same company that owns Heathrow airport and the Heathrow spur and that's completely independent to TfL and GTS (other than TfL and GTS operating on Heathrow-owned track).

Certainly though, if you are starting at an Elizabeth Line station east of Paddington, that it's quicker to stay on the train. Heck, at Heathrow Central you might as well just take the first train that comes. Which is more problematic at Paddington - as the Heathrow Express trains depart from the (middle) of the main trainshed, while the Elizabeth line trains to Heathrow usually depart from the underground platforms that are south of the main station.

In terms of the stopping pattern the UP Express is closer to Elizabeth Line, while perhaps it's purpose is to be like Heathrow Express.

As the Elizabeth Line has 6 stops between Heathrow Central and Paddington (soon to be 7), and the Union Pearson Express has 2 (soon to be 3), then I'd say that UPE is more similar to the UPE.

The broader context of other high capacity links available to the airport also needs to be taken into account. There is no Piccadilly line equivalent in Toronto.

There isn't, but the travel speed of the TTC Airport Rocket is significantly faster than Line 2 - which was never true on the Piccadilly line, before the more recent extension from Hounslow to Heathrow Central.

And then there's the Line 5 subway, which will be most comparable to the Piccadilly line.

 

[Voltz]

I was on the UPX twice a couple weeks ago and it was busy with people going to & from the airport.

Something I've noticed recently is that people are parking at the airport, or somewhere near the airport, and then taking the UPX to get downtown to catch a Leafs, Raptors, Blues Jays game.

The airport has a evenings and weekends park and ride deal for parking at the airport to take the UPX downtown for events, $35 for a family,

Park and ride the UP

Take a trip into Toronto, without the traffic. With this offer, you can park at Pearson Airport and ride the UP Express train to downtown Toronto for just $35. Take your whole family and spend the day in Toronto.

www.torontopearson.com

 

[dowlingm]

Wasn’t there once a time after they reduced the price that they had a queueing system at Union which allowed airport passengers to skip the line if they had proof of a flight? Did I imagine that, or did it happen but later fall victim to staff cost cutting?

I think we had all been hoping that with electrification, we would now see all 3-car EMUs on 12 minute headways and the UPXs Nippon Sharyos sent to Northern California. Instead we are stuck in this limbo where electrification is five years away at all times, the fleet is capped because the assembly line is closed, and they are still in a colour scheme better suited to a Barrie-Base Borden shuttle.

 

[WB62]

Wasn’t there once a time after they reduced the price that they had a queueing system at Union which allowed airport passengers to skip the line if they had proof of a flight? Did I imagine that, or did it happen but later fall victim to staff cost cutting?

This happened in 2022 before 15 minute service was restored. While there still are queues set up for busier periods, separating airport and non-airport passenger hasn’t happened for years

 

[Bordercollie]

I don't understand why we spent money for tunnels without changing the layout of the Islington bridge to accommodate more tracks. Zero coordination of projects.

 

[nfitz]

I don't understand why we spent money for tunnels without changing the layout of the Islington bridge to accommodate more tracks. Zero coordination of projects.

They could get the 4th track in tomorrow, just by using the half of Resources Road that's the Metrolinx Right-of-Way - though that would obviously create a big problem or the city. Why was Resources Road built in the rail right-of-way is a good question. Looking at some planning maps, Resources Road under Islington is entirely in the railway right-of-way.

What is the long-term plan here? To adjust the westernmost span to get tracks on that side?

Resources Road does seem to take up an unnecessary amount of land. There must be a way to adjust the Resources/401//Islington interchange to have a simple intersection, and not the fly-under. That would allow at least 2 more tracks to use the existing structure without any modifications.

 

[Bordercollie]

They could get the 4th track in tomorrow, just by using the half of Resources Road that's the Metrolinx Right-of-Way - though that would obviously create a big problem or the city. Why was Resources Road built in the rail right-of-way is a good question. Looking at some planning maps, Resources Road under Islington is entirely in the railway right-of-way.

What is the long-term plan here? To adjust the westernmost span to get tracks on that side?

Resources Road does seem to take up an unnecessary amount of land. There must be a way to adjust the Resources/401//Islington interchange to have a simple intersection, and not the fly-under. That would allow at least 2 more tracks to use the existing structure without any modifications.

I think the bigger question is why did they build the tunnels 5 years ago and haven been used because the bridge prevents them from laying more tracks. So without that figured out those tunnels are useless.