I'd be curious to know if the fancification and overspending of the Vaughan subway extension has led to increased ridership. My uninformed opinion is no. Sadly there is no way to tell other than ridership surveys. Give me cookie cutter boxes and small spaces any day if it saves $. Edit: better yet, give me elevated.
 
20250706_122905.jpg
foundation of the towers for the thorncliffe/flemington bridge seem to be coming along
 
cplchanb said:
Cookiecutter designs are what will make things cheaper. Be prepared to donate millions more to the building fund if you still want a cathedral underground
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A few million on $10 to $20 billion is a rounding error. And a pittance compared to a $400-million elevated parking lot at Ontario Place.
 
cplchanb said:
time is also unspeakable money.... just the time it took to RFP and design bespoke stations for the the YUSE and ECT probably took a years worth of effort
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Compared to this PPP and "value" engineering nonsense? Go back to the TYSSE thread (Vaughan extension). The dates are all in there. The RFPs were issued in July 2008 for the station design. Contracts were awarded in late 2008 and early 2009. The construction for the line started in July 2008 (advanced utility works) and the launch shaft began construction in 2010. And the stations were opened (late!) in 2017. So 7 years from first major construction to opening. 9 years from station design started to opening.

The next major project was Eglinton Line 5 - construction. Construction (launch shaft) began in 2011 (I don't know when the advanced utility works started. Station design contract RFQ (not even an RFP) was issued in January 2013. The RFP alone took 2 years, and came out in February 2015. And the contract was awarded in July 2015. If Line 5 actually opens in 2025, then it will have been 14 years (double!) from launch staff start to opening. And 10 years from station design to opening.

But we got great, interesting, stations, that people will enjoy for a century on TYSSE. And white cookie-cutter stations on Line 5.

You think there was years of effort for "TYSSE(?) (and whatever ECT is)? Can you tell me how the approach you want speeded things up on Eglinton? And how the approach I want slowed down the TYSSE?
 
Frankietls said:
Yes indeed it plays a important role with 3 functions:
- Paid transfer zone between line 1 and OL.
- Allow passenger from line 1 to change platforms without existing the fare gates.
- Allow passenger from adjacent buildings to access both platforms of line 1 without going up to street level. This is an unpaid zone corridor separated from the above.
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It's slightly insane having passengers go through fare gates for transfers between OL and Line 1.

AoD
 
cplchanb said:
time is also unspeakable money.... just the time it took to RFP and design bespoke stations for the the YUSE and ECT probably took a years worth of effort
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I think you're overstating the complexity and cost of ON line stations which in large parts will be constructed concurrently with the dig..

It also helps that several stations will be above ground.
 
nfitz said:
But we got great, interesting, stations, that people will enjoy for a century on TYSSE. And white cookie-cutter stations on Line 5.
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Exactly. The bottom line is that building will cost alot and probabllu be delayed regardless of the design. So why not make it something that we can at least be proud of, even if it costs and extra 10 -30 mm. Sometimes I wonder why torono burbs are so ugly and theb I remember, theres always someone trying to cheap out on infrastructure thats meant to last more than a lifetime.

That imo makes no sense
 
Thaboss said:
Exactly. The bottom line is that building will cost alot and probabllu be delayed regardless of the design. So why not make it something that we can at least be proud of, even if it costs and extra 10 -30 mm. Sometimes I wonder why torono burbs are so ugly and theb I remember, theres always someone trying to cheap out on infrastructure thats meant to last more than a lifetime.

That imo makes no sense
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an extra 10-30m will mean more tax hikes or some cut to other services. people will then be crying for the mayors head when they cant afford to pay the fare.theres a reason why cities do cookie cutter designs. not every place has the funds like dubai or state owned chinese cities.
the montreal metro is an example of how to cookie cut properly. most of the stations on the line look almost the same in terms of layout. not only does it save money but it also helps in wayfinding as riders dont have to go walking around to different directions at each stop.
the stations themselves are open and airy as well as allow for the riders to see which train is going where.
 
nfitz said:
Compared to this PPP and "value" engineering nonsense? Go back to the TYSSE thread (Vaughan extension). The dates are all in there. The RFPs were issued in July 2008 for the station design. Contracts were awarded in late 2008 and early 2009. The construction for the line started in July 2008 (advanced utility works) and the launch shaft began construction in 2010. And the stations were opened (late!) in 2017. So 7 years from first major construction to opening. 9 years from station design started to opening.
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If only the T1 replacement project would move along that quickly, that'd be great.

nfitz said:
But we got great, interesting, stations, that people will enjoy for a century on TYSSE. And white cookie-cutter stations on Line 5.
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Well, the actual TYSSE platforms are nothing but bare concrete.
 
81-717 said:
Well, the actual TYSSE platforms are nothing but bare concrete.
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I presume you're talking about the Spadina subway in particular. When they built it, they made a big deal about every station having unique artwork. Well, some of it was nice, some of it was kinda ugly, some of it is gone now and was never replaced. I'm not sure we got our moneys worth out of station beautification on that project.
 
cplchanb said:
an extra 10-30m will mean more tax hikes or some cut to other services. people will then be crying for the mayors head when they cant afford to pay the fare.theres a reason why cities do cookie cutter designs. not every place has the funds like dubai or state owned chinese cities.
the montreal metro is an example of how to cookie cut properly. most of the stations on the line look almost the same in terms of layout. not only does it save money but it also helps in wayfinding as riders dont have to go walking around to different directions at each stop.
the stations themselves are open and airy as well as allow for the riders to see which train is going where.
Click to expand...
Ontario spent 500million dollars to end LCBOs monopoly on alcohol a year early. Spending the same amount over the course of 5 + years to create the countries most efficient and expensive subway won't be the reason why ontario will "hike taxes", especially on a project earmarked to cost something like 27 billion dollars in its 30 year lifetime. (Do you honestly believe the Ford govt will hike taxes looool)

Also. I would argue that many ppl would love montreals brutalist metro design in toronto and while I agree those design are simple from a global perspective, from a toronto perspective. Montreal subway station designs are actually elaborate.

Either way, arguing over station design is pointless as those appear to have already reached a point of no return (thankfully because I like what they've come up with very much).
 
A 6264 said:
I presume you're talking about the Spadina subway in particular. When they built it, they made a big deal about every station having unique artwork. Well, some of it was nice, some of it was kinda ugly, some of it is gone now and was never replaced. I'm not sure we got our moneys worth out of station beautification on that project.
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Two art pieces that piss me off on the TYSSE are the one at York U (awful execution) and the one at Pioneer Village (useless).
 
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