Today

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Tuscani01 said:
This building would have looked sweet if it came straight to the ground, without a podium.

(Not that it doesn't look sweet with a podium)
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You and I agree on much, but differ some on the general importance of bringing a more intimate scale when the building meets the street. I know we're both passionate about good design and community building.

I think it's an honest disagreement about how to weight and mitigate competing objectives.

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That said, I'm sympathetic to your argument on this one in as much as the Yonge podium massing really does feel like it detracts from the overall architecture here.

The podium just seems like a bit of sharp juxtaposition up against the tower form.

I feel like the lowest levels of the tower should be closer to Yonge, I'm undecided on whether I would want them brought right out. Either way, I would want the base to flare a bit so as to retain a more intimate vibe on Yonge for those walking past, and to make wind mitigation easier and pedestrian conditions more pleasant.

But here, it almost feels as thought the podium is a separate building, and I'm inclined to think that's unfortunate. Hopefully the cladding and glazing will soften the hard boxiness we currently see.
 
Northern Light said:
You and I agree on much, but differ some on the general importance of bringing a more intimate scale when the building meets the street. I know we're both passionate about good design and community building.

I think it's an honest disagreement about how to weight and mitigate competing objectives.

****

That said, I'm sympathetic to your argument on this one in as much as the Yonge podium massing really does feel like it detracts from the overall architecture here.

The podium just seems like a bit of sharp juxtaposition up against the tower form.

I feel like the lowest levels of the tower should be closer to Yonge, I'm undecided on whether I would want them brought right out. Either way, I would want the base to flare a bit so as to retain a more intimate vibe on Yonge for those walking past, and to make wind mitigation easier and pedestrian conditions more pleasant.

But here, it almost feels as thought the podium is a separate building, and I'm inclined to think that's unfortunate. Hopefully the cladding and glazing will soften the hard boxiness we currently see.
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I don’t think a tower coming down to the street makes for a less intimate condition. In fact, I think a slender tower meeting the street can create a better condition than a podium that extends to the property line and fills a whole block. Vancouver has moved away from towers on a podium and it hasn’t detracted at all from the public realm.

In fact, the Butterfly building by Westbank is what I think of when I see 1 Delisle and the missed opportunity here to come straight down to the street with the tower form.

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Tuscani01 said:
This building would have looked sweet if it came straight to the ground, without a podium.

(Not that it doesn't look sweet with a podium)
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Yeah this building coming straight down to the ground would actually look 10 times better and on top of that you would gain a massive amount of public realm for exterior landscaping though I might be thinking as a country boy looking at that 🤣
 
Tuscani01 said:
I don’t think a tower coming down to the street makes for a less intimate condition. In fact, I think a slender tower meeting the street can create a better condition than a podium that extends to the property line and fills a whole block. Vancouver has moved away from towers on a podium and it hasn’t detracted at all from the public realm.

In fact, the Butterfly building by Westbank is what I think of when I see 1 Delisle and the missed opportunity here to come straight down to the street with the tower form.

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We need a building like this in Toronto.
 
Tuscani01 said:
I don’t think a tower coming down to the street makes for a less intimate condition. In fact, I think a slender tower meeting the street can create a better condition than a podium that extends to the property line and fills a whole block. Vancouver has moved away from towers on a podium and it hasn’t detracted at all from the public realm.

In fact, the Butterfly building by Westbank is what I think of when I see 1 Delisle and the missed opportunity here to come straight down to the street with the tower form.

View attachment 672737
Click to expand...

Funny how we can see the same thing, but see it differently. I appreciate the architectural quality, 'building as art piece'.

But don't think it works particularly well from a pedestrian/public realm perspective.

I think we need to start though by providing proper context, this section of Nelson Street is not a shopping street, so it's different in character than Yonge near St. Clair.

View looking down the street:

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View looking up the street:

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Not exactly a pedestrian paradise to begin with .....let's be fair either way.

But then let's turn to how the building looks facing it from across the street (Streetview July '24)

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The building doesn't have a continuous edge meeting the street, it doesn't feel outwardardly engaging with passers by, to me.

Nor do I get 'intimacy' or human-scale from this:

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IF you shift away from an Urban Toronto type audience and ask a random sample of one hundred people if they would rather walk past, or look at this every day vs the below:

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I don't think it's a contest, the votes would at least 80-20 in favour of the latter.

Its colour, material and scale/massing are much more appealing to most people, and more likely to lead to a vibrant streetscape.

The tower/podium framing is generally premised on the idea of building like this and hiding the tower in behind those more human-scaled walls.

One can have different preferences of course and we needn't be stuck on the 19th C details or obsessed with pastiche. But there's a reason people prefer Yorkville and St. Lawrence to City Place.
 
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Northern Light said:
Funny how we can see the same thing, but see it differently. I appreciate the architectural quality, 'building as art piece'.

But don't think it works particularly well from a pedestrian/public realm perspective.

I think we need to start though by providing proper context, this section of Nelson Street is not a shopping street, so its different in character than Yonge near St. Clair.
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Plus, the Butterfly is part of a renovation of the adjacent church with its community centre, and a podium would have uncomfortably butted up against the church building. The built form provides an entry plaza to the church's community centre facilities. On the other side is a separate social housing building that's part of the project, where physical separation was 'desirable'.
 
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