drum118
Superstar
It behind the stairs and escalators and I was surprised when I was told this by the now retired Commissioner of Transportation and Works. The station was design for 2 levels when built in the 90's
sixrings
Senior Member
See Drum. No reason to be negative. People in the 90s cared about transit around here.
drum118
Superstar
The station was out dated before a shovel went into the ground as well in the wrong location, It is still out dated and in the wrong location, Still narrow thinking about transit in the 90's and still is.
micheal_can
Senior Member
I m trying to figure out what is meant by in the wrong location. Is there any way for you to draw something to show where it is, and where would be the correct location?
sixrings
Senior Member
I think drum believes the location should be on Hurontario. And I agree with him. But I could be wrong. I’m thinking Robert Speck parkway and Hurontario.
drum118
Superstar
From what I recalled from what I was told in 2000's as well before my time. the terminal was to be at the north-east corner of Square One land as well larger.. I also could be wrong in the location as it boil down to money the city was well what the was willing to pay for.
I have pushed for a new larger terminal there or the land between Rathburn/Square One Dr/City Centre/Hurontario, This would still keep the Transitway buses underground with another 2 levels for buses as well another underground level for future RT lines. There would be development on top of this new terminal.
I could live with what @sixrings posted
sixrings
Senior Member
It is weird that the station isn’t on the biggest street in the city but just off it by a block or two. It’s extra weird with the lrt now.
MiExpress
New Member
One of the biggest misconceptions surrounding the Mississauga Transitway, and to an extent the City Centre Terminal (CCT) itself, is that the CCT was placed where it was at the expense of a station elsewhere, or that it was built solely to justify the transitway or vice versa.
CCT was the first of three stations planned for the City Centre, and also the only of the three built before the 2003 design update value engineered the planned tunnel through the city centre and the stations out of existence.
The 1990 design for the City Centre segment of the transitway, which was to be tunneled, included three stations all fully below grade. West Station at Confederation, Centre Station roughly where CCT is now, and East Station at Hurontario. The Centre Station/CCT was first proposed closer to Duke of York and would have been fully below grade. The proposed West Station at Confederation was eliminated from the design by 1992, but the East Station at Hurontario remained. While CCT was built in 1997 and above grade, at that point the transitway design throughout the City Centre still called for a tunnel and the East Station at Hurontario, so it was designed and built to accommodate a future tunnel and lower level platforms as discussed above.
City Centre Busway Technical Status Report (May, 1990)
Alternative 3 is what was chosen as the City Centre alignment with the three stations as noted above (Mavis Station was not considered part of the City Centre which is why it isn't shown).
Proposed Centre Station (CCT). While the CCT built in 1997 was above grade, it was designed to accommodate the proposed tunnel and platforms at lower level.
East Station at Hurontario, which remained in the design until the 2003 design update.
The 1992 EA maintained the vast majority of the project, but did drop Confederation and Glen Erin Stations due to proximity reasons, as well as Mississauga Road Station due to "character" and resident concerns as drum118 noted.
The 2003 EA was a big blow to the transitway design, as in a bid to cut costs the tunneled portion in the city centre was eliminated as well as the Hurontario Station. It also eliminated the busway portion between City Centre and Erin Mills, as well as Mavis, Creditview and Ridgeway Stations. There was a proposal to have the transitway buses stop at an above grade stop where Station Gate Road is now, with a underground pedestrian tunnel connecting to CCT, but this was also dropped.
In my personal opinion completing the transitway as envisioned in the 1990 and 1992 designs, with the city centre tunnel, full right of way along the 403 and stations at Hurontario, Mavis, Creditview and Ridgeway should be the #1 priority and would make Mississauga's transit network massively more useful with a complete east-west spine. With that MiWay could easily implement a frequent grid network with easy transfers to the transitway running very frequent service. The fact the transitway was not completed as designed is what really limits its usefulness. I have no qualms in saying that the money being spent on the LRT loop would be far better invested in completing the transitway with frequent bus service connecting to the LRT at Hurontario Station (or one of the other LRT stations. But the loop is the politically sexy thing to do right now.
Northern Light
Superstar
Excellent archival info. Thanks.
I'll have to dive into it when I get a chance, a quick look suggested my remaining attention span today would be insufficient!
drum118
Superstar
Great find and I wasn't aware of that plan as it was before my time dealing with transit and don't recall hearing about it. Other than CCTT, the other 2 stations make no sense as ridership would be very low in the first place unless buses on both roads where a grid route.
One has to wonder what transit would look like as well the city if the city accepted the free RT from Kipling and then use the 403 to go west. Can't recall where the RT ended in west end. The city refused the RT as they did not want Toronto riffraff coming out to the city, considering the city had its own riffraff at the time.
The one issue I don't know, can the missing section be built today like the rest is in the hydro corridor, since Hydro One doesn't want transit in their corridor now?? The other issue is the north service road that is supposed to be built east of Hurontario to Mavis/Creditview as to what impact it will have on the missing section? With the LRT bridge in place, one can say the service road is dead
sitiez
New Member
I couldn’t find the blueprint for Cawthra Station but here’s Central Parkway Station with a potential bus loop courtesy of Lake Ontario from an earlier post. I think this is what these stations need along with other improvements. Specifically if Cawthra Station gets this, hopefully the 8 (or potentially 8A) can bring some activity to that station. Curious what you guys think…
drum118
Superstar
Cawthra Station was down graded to what is there today due to lack of ridership as well no walkway from the residential area across the street. It was and is a station that made no sense having in the first place. One only has to look at the number of vehicles that are parked there in the first place. Dixie Station has less vehicles parking there than Cawthra, considering GO service Dixie, but not Cawthra.
Any though of seeing a lot of riders using an Route 8 bus is a pipe dream with most of those riders being students that will be forced to do an extra transfer going to/from CCTT. Riders using the current 8 transfer to/from the Route 3 as well along the route to CCTT, with students being the largest group of riders. I used the 8 to go to the NO Frills store, but with one that has open up on Confederation that is a 30 minute walk away as well larger, my days going to Cawthra store are coming to an end since it will be faster to Confederation by 30-60 minutes depending on the time and day.
There is no density or industries based to support a grid Route 8 unless it went north to Derry Rd by either Kennedy or Tomken Rd as one route from Derry to the Lakeshore. Even then, it will be really pushing it to justify a bus going to this station.
i would be lucky to count my 10 fingers how often a bus I was on that stop to drop a rider off or pickup one since opening day.
I said in my 2004 opposition report to the Transitway EA that there was no need for the Cawthra Station and still do since the Transitway is a GO Thing, not miWay Thing. Depending on the time of day, the old Route 26 and Route 3 where faster to get to/from Islington/Kipling than using the Transitway. It help the residents of Meadowvale more than those east of CCTT. I can catch the 53 to/from the Transitway when using TTC on Eglinton to Yonge as it is faster than going to Kipling and then Yonge/Eglinton. It will be more faster when the Crosstown Phase 1 opens and more so when Phase 2 opens. Down side to the 53, it doesn't run on the weekend or holidays as well not getting to the arena on those days.
Dan416
Senior Member
Getting to the subway, I've never used the Transitway. I used it for the first time going to the airport a few months back. For that, it is useful. But it is in no way, shape or form a replacement for a Milton diversion or Line 2 extension to MCC. I'm open to whichever of those 2 options are cheaper. It's unfortunate that line 2 has much tighter stop spacing than line 1. If the stop spacing was similar to Line 1, the subway would get dt much faster. The GO train has decent speed, but until it's minimum all-day service, it's not useful for most of the day.
SubHuman
Active Member
I don't think so. For several years I used to go to Square One once or twice a month from Islington or Kipling, and taking the Mississauga Express Route 109 along the transitway after it opened certainly seemed to be a huge improvement over those local routes (3, 26, 20) that just annoyingly crawled along slowly, 26 in particular also getting stuck in traffic jams, and stops every few hundred feet. Coincidentally, one night last week I took Miway Route 26 from South Common all the way back to Islington because the Triplinx app showed it was the best option (for that time of night when there was no 101 Express). Even though it no longer turns up into the Square One bus station, it felt like it took forever and seemed to be purposefully moving slower than it could have, and waiting an extra minute or two at several stops for no apparent reason.
micheal_can
Senior Member
What about going down to the Lakeshore line once the HRT is open?