drum118
Superstar
That my take on the answer and what I know. Since TTC is way bigger than Mississauga and carry more weight, easier to put it to the small system
MPDUDE
New Member
Hi Everyone!
Long time lurker, first time poster. I have been wondering for a while now how the LRT tracks between Eglinton and Square One will transition from the middle/center median (towards Eglinton) to the eventual elevated guideways situated on the westside of Hurontario (towards Square One).
Will the tracks along Hurontario be elevated at some point or will they run through the southbound lanes at some point to reach the elevated guideways (and interrupt vehicle flow)? I have scoured the internet, published renderings and these forums without reaching a conclusion so I was hoping someone could shed some insight.
Thanks so much.
MP
Long time lurker, first time poster. I have been wondering for a while now how the LRT tracks between Eglinton and Square One will transition from the middle/center median (towards Eglinton) to the eventual elevated guideways situated on the westside of Hurontario (towards Square One).
Will the tracks along Hurontario be elevated at some point or will they run through the southbound lanes at some point to reach the elevated guideways (and interrupt vehicle flow)? I have scoured the internet, published renderings and these forums without reaching a conclusion so I was hoping someone could shed some insight.
Thanks so much.
MP
Mercury
New Member
Bureaucromancer
Active Member
Oof, the plates aren't great, but 3-32 in https://assets.metrolinx.com/image/...Metrolinx/Hurontario-Main_LRT_Project_EPR.pdf is probably as close as you're going to get right now. Somehow the actual appendix with the full size plates seems to have disappeared.
drum118
Superstar
I have asked the questions as how are the tracks getting to the centre of Hurontario for the 403, Sq One Drive and Englewood Rd and have yet to receive a reply to it.
Based on what I am seeing first hand, is this could be were I am out to lunch on it.
My recommendation was to flyover the 403 and Hurontario to the centre and ramp down to Kingsbridge. This free up all interference with traffic. A week or so ago, saw stakes on the west side of Hurontario saying the flyover will ramp down north of the westbound on ramp for the 403 and then move to the centre at Kingsbridge traffic lights. This will have an impact on turning left traffic as well southbound traffic.
Sq One Drive is supposed to have the tracks swing to the centre of Hurontario at the intersection and will effect 80% of traffic as the northbound traffic is not effected. It would have been nice to have a flyover to the centre before Sq One and then ramp down, but been told not enough room to do it without interfering with the station. This has been a swing door for some time.
The centre lane will swing west to the west side at the new traffic light intersection at Englewood Dr to the station with 80% of traffic being effected like Sq One intersection. This is the best option to do it.
What needs to happen before they open the new Englewood intersection and the new bridge is the have the guideway built within the next month or so since traffic is in the temporary northbound traffic lane going southbound. This will allow the rest of the new southbound lane to be built before shifting traffic back to where it is to be as well the northbound lane to the centre area to build the new northbound lane.
Once both direction traffic is in the correct locations, traffic lights can be install. Once install and working, the new bridge can be open to allow the closure of the current traffic light intersection as well the removal of the exist bridge.
Have seen things built and then torn out in a number of locations that I am assuming what maybe going on that can be off the wall.
Where the elevated section to/from the city core connects to the north-south section, it will be on a graded earth base at the end of the 2 north section and before it goes across the 403. The earth bass T connection will be elevated. This will be like a T connection on curves and allow for service to remain 100% on Hurontario and bypassing the city core station/loop.
As for the bridge over the 403, once the 2 end piers are in place and this is subject to MTO, the 403 will be close during the night to allow the placement of the support beams. Traffic will use the on/off ramps to get around the closure. This is the best option without forcing traffic to come to a halt when a beam is to be place like they did on the QEW for the westbound traffic at Dixie a month or so ago. MTO is calling the shot for the bridge work.
My 2 cents
Based on what I am seeing first hand, is this could be were I am out to lunch on it.
My recommendation was to flyover the 403 and Hurontario to the centre and ramp down to Kingsbridge. This free up all interference with traffic. A week or so ago, saw stakes on the west side of Hurontario saying the flyover will ramp down north of the westbound on ramp for the 403 and then move to the centre at Kingsbridge traffic lights. This will have an impact on turning left traffic as well southbound traffic.
Sq One Drive is supposed to have the tracks swing to the centre of Hurontario at the intersection and will effect 80% of traffic as the northbound traffic is not effected. It would have been nice to have a flyover to the centre before Sq One and then ramp down, but been told not enough room to do it without interfering with the station. This has been a swing door for some time.
The centre lane will swing west to the west side at the new traffic light intersection at Englewood Dr to the station with 80% of traffic being effected like Sq One intersection. This is the best option to do it.
What needs to happen before they open the new Englewood intersection and the new bridge is the have the guideway built within the next month or so since traffic is in the temporary northbound traffic lane going southbound. This will allow the rest of the new southbound lane to be built before shifting traffic back to where it is to be as well the northbound lane to the centre area to build the new northbound lane.
Once both direction traffic is in the correct locations, traffic lights can be install. Once install and working, the new bridge can be open to allow the closure of the current traffic light intersection as well the removal of the exist bridge.
Have seen things built and then torn out in a number of locations that I am assuming what maybe going on that can be off the wall.
Where the elevated section to/from the city core connects to the north-south section, it will be on a graded earth base at the end of the 2 north section and before it goes across the 403. The earth bass T connection will be elevated. This will be like a T connection on curves and allow for service to remain 100% on Hurontario and bypassing the city core station/loop.
As for the bridge over the 403, once the 2 end piers are in place and this is subject to MTO, the 403 will be close during the night to allow the placement of the support beams. Traffic will use the on/off ramps to get around the closure. This is the best option without forcing traffic to come to a halt when a beam is to be place like they did on the QEW for the westbound traffic at Dixie a month or so ago. MTO is calling the shot for the bridge work.
My 2 cents
MPDUDE
New Member
Thank you! I am a bit disappointed to hear that there is no flyover to the center of the Hurontario but I guess that would've been too good to be true. Seems like a big missed opportunity to figure this one out. I wonder how well the net traffic/LRT flow will be at these various sections.
drum118
Superstar
I prefer the flyover to the centre for the 403 and Sq One, but can't do it at PC. Even the thought of tunneling under Hurontario is out of the question as it would have to be very deep to get under the Mary Fix Creek, along with a deeper PC station.
In away, you got to thank MTO for no flyover since they were the ones not wanting the 403 overpass to be rebuilt to support the LRT in the first place and why the line is where it is now.
Then you got to thank the city for not paying extra money for the current bus terminal location as well moving it after they need a bigger one for today needs as well in the future . It was the same thing regarding the arena that it could had been near the 403 in the core than where it is.
Square One is at fault also for not allowing the transit hub to be located near Hurontario as well reducing their foot print and asking a steep price for land in the 80's/90'. Then there was the no thought of having density above the terminal in the first place. Same thing will happen when the decide where to build the new hub will be. The big change for the new hub will be the full connection to the Transitway as well more GO buses servicing the hub than miWay.
I can see a lot of issues down the road for traffic with the LRT crossing it as plan. The only thing that is saving some issues will be the headway once it set in stone.
Because of the length of the LRV, it will be about 5-10 years before they need to add the 2nd car and maintaining the same headway. I will say off hand, it will be about 2040 when headways will have to decrease and having more 2 packs on the road that will have a real impact on traffic.
What will come into the picture that will change things before 2040 and that is the loop. With the city now pushing the loop from Living Arts to Confederation, it becomes a longer route that will reduced the set in stone headway when it gets built. Looking at around 2028-30 before its operational if funds are found by 2026 election year. ML from my take prefer to leave the loop as proposed before the current plan.
drum118
Superstar
June 19
A few more up on my site
Counted only 8 workers on the elevated section with 5 at the ramp area. Haven't seen many since the work started on decking of the elevated area.
I will say off hand that the ramp itself will be 500' long, giving it about 3.5% grade that will continue until it at final height going over City View Dr, Support the idea of a ramp in the centre section of Hurontario with a flyover for the 403 and at Sq One Dr than the plan grade crossing.
Another section of rebar base and south retaining wall waiting for concrete to be pour. This leaves 3 sections still to see rebar and concrete to complete the ramp area base. The wall will be next before backfilling can take place before the guideway can be built. Don't expect to see that done until the fall if then at the rate this thing is moving.
A few more up on my site
Counted only 8 workers on the elevated section with 5 at the ramp area. Haven't seen many since the work started on decking of the elevated area.
I will say off hand that the ramp itself will be 500' long, giving it about 3.5% grade that will continue until it at final height going over City View Dr, Support the idea of a ramp in the centre section of Hurontario with a flyover for the 403 and at Sq One Dr than the plan grade crossing.
Another section of rebar base and south retaining wall waiting for concrete to be pour. This leaves 3 sections still to see rebar and concrete to complete the ramp area base. The wall will be next before backfilling can take place before the guideway can be built. Don't expect to see that done until the fall if then at the rate this thing is moving.
drum118
Superstar
Was at a meeting tonight and it seems I am not the only one calling for a mid to later 2025 start up of service for the line, not later 2024 as plan.
The city not happy way things are going or even getting answers to question. The city has a number of issues with setup for lane closure, how pedestrian are to cross intersection along with a long list of other things and only getting lip service back on the issues, if at all,
As I noted on my comment for last week on line meet that a number of business next to the line haven' seen anyone from ML teams visiting business yet. According to a person who was on one of ML teams, they had stick guidelines as what business they should talk to as well how far on either side if the street they could go, If the business was on the street but an side street address, not allow to talk to them. If they were beyond 150 of the street, not allow to talk to them.
I see why I was hearing from various place why they haven't been visited by ML to date when I was telling them what was going on Hurontario so far. Very poor PR on ML part.
None of the plan closures the past 2 Sunday as well on Monday took place for Elm Dr until late today, A number of stops out of service had riders standing at them with a larger notice for the now out of service stops. Even as I shot the notice, riders were reading it, yet were still there after I left. Transit management were telling drivers to be prepare for the closure and follow the detour route when it happen as they had no idea when it would happen.
The city not happy way things are going or even getting answers to question. The city has a number of issues with setup for lane closure, how pedestrian are to cross intersection along with a long list of other things and only getting lip service back on the issues, if at all,
As I noted on my comment for last week on line meet that a number of business next to the line haven' seen anyone from ML teams visiting business yet. According to a person who was on one of ML teams, they had stick guidelines as what business they should talk to as well how far on either side if the street they could go, If the business was on the street but an side street address, not allow to talk to them. If they were beyond 150 of the street, not allow to talk to them.
I see why I was hearing from various place why they haven't been visited by ML to date when I was telling them what was going on Hurontario so far. Very poor PR on ML part.
None of the plan closures the past 2 Sunday as well on Monday took place for Elm Dr until late today, A number of stops out of service had riders standing at them with a larger notice for the now out of service stops. Even as I shot the notice, riders were reading it, yet were still there after I left. Transit management were telling drivers to be prepare for the closure and follow the detour route when it happen as they had no idea when it would happen.
Tim MacDonald
Senior Member
Some QEW/Hurontario shots from June 18th for those interested
urbantoronto.ca
Some GTA Aerials by Tim MacDonald (Covid19 induced Boredom)
Fire damage photos from the presentation centre for the defunct 5&10 Towns project at Dundas and Confederation:
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
Kinda related to the HuLRT: Mississauga Councillor muses about lowering parking requirements for developments on major transit corridors like Hurontario.
afransen
Senior Member
The provincial government should probably just ban parking minimums. They are bad policy.
drum118
Superstar
Ford would be cutting his throat if he did that since cars are supposed to rule the road in the first place as well getting votes to stay in power.
US cities have are moving to reduce the minimum parking requirements for everything to get rid of seas of parking lots seeing vehicles only 9-14 hours a day and to replace them with development.
Mississauga is reducing minimum requirements, but at same time still require more than 1.25 spot for a number of them..
Mississauga is to see 175,000 new residential units by 2033 to meet province requirements which means we can see 175,000 to 250,000 more cars and where do you put them??
If transit is to move new riders from these new residential, current model split will see 30,000 new riders when it should be 80,000 plus if service was there for them in the first place,
Heard ridership is up 135%, but based on what and what is that number? I do know we are seeing more peak loaded buses as well bus full off peak because of lack of service caused by reduced headway and drivers.
afransen
Senior Member
Zero parking minimum does not mean maximum zero parking. It means developers and property owners have freedom to make decisions about what amount of parking is warranted in new development and existing properties respectively.
Frankly, we're designing and approving today for the world of close to 10 years from now. I kind of expect autonomous ride hail, active transport and transit to displace a lot of private car ownership.
Lake Ontario
Active Member
Recording of the June 15th open house:
Timelapse of the Lakeshore West Line push box:
Article on the push box:
Timelapse of the Lakeshore West Line push box:
Article on the push box:
Progress on the Hazel McCallion Line
Exciting developments include the final push of the underpass and start of construction’s next phase
www.metrolinx.com