[taal]

It's not worth anything remotely near that.

Right so, given it's very likely heritage, and the there would be a lot of shadowing concerns on NPS - I doubt there's potential for a large scale re-development, hence the limited value.

 

[rdaner]

Interesting as there are higher buildings adjacent and this block is about to be at a subway interchange. Maybe this is similar to the situation that the owners of The Dominion Building are in.

 

[taal]

Interesting as there are higher buildings adjacent and this block is about to be at a subway interchange. Maybe this is similar to the situation that the owners of The Dominion Building are in.

You're right ! But this is definitely a heritage property

 

[Northern Light]

Right so, given it's very likely heritage, and the there would be a lot of shadowing concerns on NPS - I doubt there's potential for a large scale re-development, hence the limited value.

The value isn't that limited.........

A base reference would be the purchase price CF paid for it, which was 650M .

But current values per buildable ft2 are trading lower than they were then.

Right now, with the office market down and the condo market dire, the value is likely somewhat depressed below the earlier valuation, for which CF may have been guilty of overpaying. (They really wanted to add Sak's at TEC; an idea that probably wasn't worth paying for...)

The Bay's lease on the premise runs through 2039, so absent a buy-out, nothing is happening near term anyways.

The tower just got re-clad (molested)

The store's subbasement levels are currently occupied by Metrolinx doing work on the O/L

That pretty much puts a hold on any major re-think until they're in wrap up mode, in six years, maybe.

***

Add to the above, your legitimate points concerning heritage preservation, shadowing of NPS, and the prospect of working on a site whose value would only be maximized by removing an existing office tower, and then having to work next to two operating subway lines..... and a station to which you would have to preserve public access during construction.

 

[taal]

The value isn't that limited.........

A base reference would be the purchase price CF paid for it, which was 650M .

But current values per buildable ft2 are trading lower than they were then.

Right now, with the office market down and the condo market dire, the value is likely somewhat depressed below the earlier valuation, for which CF may have been guilty of overpaying. (They really wanted to add Sak's at TEC; an idea that probably wasn't worth paying for...)

The Bay's lease on the premise runs through 2039, so absent a buy-out, nothing is happening near term anyways.

The tower just got re-clad (molested)

The store's subbasement levels are currently occupied by Metrolinx doing work on the O/L

That pretty much puts a hold on any major re-think until they're in wrap up mode, in six years, maybe.

***

Add to the above, your legitimate points concerning heritage preservation, shadowing of NPS, and the prospect of working on a site whose value would only be maximized by removing an existing office tower, and then having to work next to two operating subway lines..... and a station to which you would have to preserve public access during construction.

Great post! It got me thinking about the peak of the office market and the potential value that could have been unlocked from the site without any new development. Imagine converting the entire building—or nearly all of it, excluding the basement and parts of the ground floor—into office space. That’s about 1 million square feet of large-floor-plate AAA office space, though lighting might pose a challenge. In the height of the market, I could definitely see that happening.

As for valuation, consider Bay Adelaide North, which is around 800,000 square feet and sold for $850 million back in 2021(for the office portion). With its heritage elements and large floor plates, I’d wager this site could have fetched significantly more.

But alas, those days are gone

 

[pw20]

The value isn't that limited.........

A base reference would be the purchase price CF paid for it, which was 650M .

But current values per buildable ft2 are trading lower than they were then.

Right now, with the office market down and the condo market dire, the value is likely somewhat depressed below the earlier valuation, for which CF may have been guilty of overpaying. (They really wanted to add Sak's at TEC; an idea that probably wasn't worth paying for...)

The Bay's lease on the premise runs through 2039, so absent a buy-out, nothing is happening near term anyways.

The tower just got re-clad (molested)

The store's subbasement levels are currently occupied by Metrolinx doing work on the O/L

That pretty much puts a hold on any major re-think until they're in wrap up mode, in six years, maybe.

***

Add to the above, your legitimate points concerning heritage preservation, shadowing of NPS, and the prospect of working on a site whose value would only be maximized by removing an existing office tower, and then having to work next to two operating subway lines..... and a station to which you would have to preserve public access during construction.

To get back to the Hudson's Bay Centre, my understanding was that the floor heights are very low at the old Bay, which was a blocker for Saks's original plan (moving in to Bloor Street, which would have... made way more sense) - how, if at all, have they resolved that Northern Light, do you know? Or does the tenant not care?

 

[Northern Light]

To get back to the Hudson's Bay Centre, my understanding was that the floor heights are very low at the old Bay,

Most of the main floor heights in the bunker are good, especially when you consider that there are drop ceilings.

Portions of the main floor and upper floors do have lower ceiling heights, which may be an issue.

......which was a blocker for Saks's original plan (moving in to Bloor Street, which would have... made way more sense)

I agree Sak's belonged on Bloor, but I don't believe ceiling heights were a material factor in them locating at TEC.

CF simply made them a more appealing offer (buying the Bay Queen for 650M and providing a lease-back to 2039, Brookfield couldn't really match that deal)

how, if at all, have they resolved that Northern Light, do you know? Or does the tenant not care?

The honest answer is I don't know. I asked the very same questions......of a couple of different sources and was either told they didn't know or you'll see when the deal closes.

I think this is an incredibly challenging space to repurpose; even moreso for what I understand to be the prospective tenant....... I think we should know before summer.

 

[Northern Light]

So........all my teasing appears to have been for nought.

So far as I know, the prospective tenant here is out.

In the fullness of time I will let more of that info out.........but for now........ I'm still trying to figure out why.........and what that does or does not mean for this space.

 

[Lyphe]

I had been assuming all the work was subway related, but I see tarping attached directly to the RBC bank branch ... and it also looks like there is work being done on the Bay building awnings (not sure if those giant screws pointing up were always there, but it looks somewhat stripped down when compared to the other awning directly east of it). Anyone know what is actually taking place here and if it is subway or building related?

 

[nightstreak]

View attachment 651510

I had been assuming all the work was subway related, but I see tarping attached directly to the RBC bank branch ... and it also looks like there is work being done on the Bay building awnings (not sure if those giant screws pointing up were always there, but it looks somewhat stripped down when compared to the other awning directly east of it). Anyone know what is actually taking place here and if it is subway or building related?

They were flag poles.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

View attachment 651510

I had been assuming all the work was subway related, but I see tarping attached directly to the RBC bank branch ... and it also looks like there is work being done on the Bay building awnings (not sure if those giant screws pointing up were always there, but it looks somewhat stripped down when compared to the other awning directly east of it). Anyone know what is actually taking place here and if it is subway or building related?

What's the status of the legal action between the TTC and Brookfield anyways?

AoD