TheTigerMaster
Superstar
That's more daily riders than the SRT, and nearly as much as the Sheppard Line. This is all very exciting.
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That's more daily riders than the SRT, and nearly as much as the Sheppard Line. This is all very exciting.
BurlOak
Senior Member
I wonder if they are looking at grade-separating the Eglinton West portion. That was always always best solution and a excellent and affordable compromise between the super expensive 2 stop SmartTrack and the disruptive and slow on-street plan.
Steve X
Senior Member
Of course. Many people on the edge of Scarborough live with a low income and relies on transit. The 116 Morningside sees high ridership between Sheppard and Lawrence. It's a shame that the LRT doesn't reach Sheppard. The 198 Rocket that mirrors this route runs on all 7 days now supplementing the busy 86/116 routes.
Sheppard is home to upper middle class citizens who prefers driving. That entire corridor has zero transit growth. I'm glad the city realize that this is a priority. Sucks that they missed out on Malvern.
I find it interesting that they are planning a straight through line at Kennedy instead of both lines terminating at Kennedy in the Transit city plan. Just shows how politically influence TTC is.
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crs1026
Superstar
It's going to be interesting to watch and see if they can keep a route this long from bunching up.
If the 512 is the template, the turnbacks may happen anyways.
- Paul
TransitBart
Senior Member
It's a hell of a long way from Mount Dennis to Leslie Street which is completely free of delays. Let's get it built and then worry about bunching later. I have lived in Cologne which has a mixed ROW and in traffic LRT/Strassenbahn system and I never experienced 'bunching'. I am going to cross my fingers that the technology and knowledge exist to avoid this and that the brains behind EC will make it work.
Steve X
Senior Member
It would be really interesting to see the line operate from Pearson Airport to UTSC (or even extend to Sheppard) knowing that the TTC is the worst at operating service when a portion of the line goes down. Hundreds of unscheduled crew changes on the subway happens daily as trains are always late and the drivers have to be relieved for breaks or finished the shift. With a super long line, crew management would be quite difficult. For buses/streetcars, drivers would short turn or otherwise paid overtime if it's the end of his shift, the vehicle heads back to the facility and no one would replace them. For a subway/LRT line, it's been messy for the TTC. I don't even know if TTC operation is a good thing for riders oppose to private operators like the ION and Confederation lines.
The Crosstown line is interesting. The demand is between Weston and Laird and from Kennedy eastwards. The western extension and the surface portion between Don Mills and Kennedy would have much lower demands. I'll expect some rush hour trains would supplement the busy section. They would also need a new yard in the east end. The Sheppard carhouse at Conlins was suppose to do that job. If there's an accident the occurs east of Keele before the morning, the whole line is screwed. It would be like Yonge last week but there won't be any TRs to save them this time. It would be wise to build a storage for 8-12 (up to 24 LRVs) trains around Kennedy.
crs1026
Superstar
Actually, this is the perfect time to worry about operational challenges....the line is coming, but the design is getting close to concrete. If the solution lies in technology, let's be sure it is incorporated. Retrofits are wasteful. If changes to policy are needed (I'm thinking of the Roads Dept in particular) let's write the new policy now so that it has time to soak and isn't a reaction to something.
I raised the 512 because it is the closest to what we can expect from Crosstown east of Leslie. Littke 'knowledge' about managing headways is evident in its performance. If new 'brains' are going to run Crosstown, let them experiment with St Clair....TTC might learn something.
Until we have an actual operating LRT line in Toronto that behaves as an LRT, and not as a street car, I think we need to talk this kind of thing up. I'm not being negative, this line will be great..... but there is constructive value in considering what could go wrong, and fixing it beforehand.
- Paul
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Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
With the section from Mount Dennis to Laird underground and with automatic train control (ATC), it should be able to operate with an employee off it. The "operator" is there for "security" and "information" purposes. Maybe they can give "control" over to operations control, should there not be someone on it. Maybe that'll be one of the tests they will try, just to see if it is possible with different "problem" scenarios.
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GenerationW
Senior Member
It was suggested at Thursday's DRL meeting that they are considering grade-separating parts of Eglinton West.
crs1026
Superstar
Some notes from this morning's PIC re Eglinton West:
- The number of stops is still under study
- Development planning along Eglinton has been "frozen" (not sure exactly what that means) pending the further LRT studies. There has been an assessment of what is on the books already, and there is confidence that there is sufficient land left to facilitate LRT - addressing concerns over the selloff of city owned land along this corridor
- Showed a map indicating zones where they are considering "underground or elevated options" (exact quote of their words)... other than in the lowland areas from Scarlett to Weston, this showed mostly the Wincott to 427 area - suggests they are comfortable that RY, Islington and Kipling don't need grade separation
- Have studied the suggestion for BRT instead of LRT, are convinced that the case for LRT is much stronger than BRT including ridership
- Routing in the Airport area being studied - GTAA rep was on hand, acknowledged the possibility for LRT to access the proposed transit hub at Viscount, and the need for some connection to the Malton GO/RER station, although LRT not being proposed as the solution for this
- Will provide a further report to Council in June, this is short of a final report
- Paul
- The number of stops is still under study
- Development planning along Eglinton has been "frozen" (not sure exactly what that means) pending the further LRT studies. There has been an assessment of what is on the books already, and there is confidence that there is sufficient land left to facilitate LRT - addressing concerns over the selloff of city owned land along this corridor
- Showed a map indicating zones where they are considering "underground or elevated options" (exact quote of their words)... other than in the lowland areas from Scarlett to Weston, this showed mostly the Wincott to 427 area - suggests they are comfortable that RY, Islington and Kipling don't need grade separation
- Have studied the suggestion for BRT instead of LRT, are convinced that the case for LRT is much stronger than BRT including ridership
- Routing in the Airport area being studied - GTAA rep was on hand, acknowledged the possibility for LRT to access the proposed transit hub at Viscount, and the need for some connection to the Malton GO/RER station, although LRT not being proposed as the solution for this
- Will provide a further report to Council in June, this is short of a final report
- Paul
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Thanks. We're there any slides from the meeting?
BurlOak
Senior Member
Will this be like the East portion of the current phase of construction?
We are paying 90% of the cost of a fully grade-separated line just to force it on-street for a short section. Maybe they picked a 1km section an said "this must be on street" and then designed the rest.
We are paying 90% of the cost of a fully grade-separated line just to force it on-street for a short section. Maybe they picked a 1km section an said "this must be on street" and then designed the rest.
crs1026
Superstar
There was a ppt presentation but I didnt see any copies to take away. Hoping it will get posted.
- Paul
TransitBart
Senior Member
Plenty of chatter on this one which all of us here believe means that the Relief Line passes through. My colleagues from Richmond Hill at work; however, would all be climbing the walls if Wynford showed as intermodal meaning someone had figured out how to connect GO Richmond Hill to Line 5. We can't have it all. Kudos to the planners for Mount Dennis, Caledonia, and the more obvious Cedarvale, Eglinton, and Kennedy.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
Guess what intersection along the proposed Eglinton West LRT, they should grade separate the right-of-way? Bonus points, if you can guess where there should be a grade separation at an intersection along the proposed Eglinton East LRT, where it goes along Kingston Road?