[Steve X]

That makes no sense at all why would they want to do that? would Metrolinx even let them do it or the province? Plus I don't think the city or the TTC board is in a good position to be calling Metrolinx out on projects taking longer then they should.

If none of the funds come from Queen's Park, then it's possible but at the same time probably impossible. There must be an agreement on ownership, operating Metrolinx property (Metrolinx-owned LRVs) on city own tracks, who would pay for the additional maintenance, who will buy additional LRVs, where will city-owned LRVs be stored and etc. Metrolinx would have to sign an amendment with the current consortium.

The LRVs are a huge issue here. TTC gave up 300 of the 400 car options to Metrolinx. Metrolinx might want those cars for other projects like Hamilton and Mississauga. KW is already benefiting from TTC's 204 streetcar contract. The 14 cars they are getting is an option from the 400 cars TTC got with the current streetcar contract. If Metrolinx allocates zero cars to crosstown extensions, TTC only has 40 cars left after the 60 additional cars they want to order. TTC would want more than 264 cars so there isn't any spare options for the TTC. The TTC might be stuck ordering cars at a much higher price for the extensions if Metrolinx doesn't fund them.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Other than that yeah you guys are right I suppose. Though even to get from the UofT Scarborough to the Yonge line would be a lot of stops (I think, I haven't actually counted), and I imagine that'd be more common.

5 minutes from Yonge to Laird. 17.5 minutes to Kennedy, 36 minutes to UT-SC.

That is one hour to get to UTSC from Yonge-Eglinton.

From Bloor-Yonge, it takes 27 minutes to reach Kennedy, and 36 minutes to UT-SC. So also approximately 1h10minutes.

People have some pretty gnarly commutes to school today from what I have seen. So I fully expect these commutes to be made in the future.

 

[Voltz]

The nonsensical stops are obvious. Falmouth, Mason, Eglinton/Kingston, Guildwood Pkwy, Lawrence and West Hill could go as they nearby to other stops.

The alignment around UTSC is all wrong, IMO. It should directly serve the main campus from south of Ellesmere, then follow Military Trail back to rejoin Morningside. And the terminus should be the Malvern Town Ctr shopping mall as that's the heart of the community, not Sheppard.

That's just wrong, removing most of those stops would result in stop spacing of nearly a kilometre or more in most cases, just way to long and with little overall benefit.

And it's been mentioned before why moving the stop at UTSC is not necessary.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

And it's been mentioned before why moving the stop at UTSC is not necessary.

It won't be reaching Sheppard anyway. The map posted last page was from the Scarborough-Malvern LRT EA, that had Sheppard as it's terminus.

Crosstown East will terminate at UTSC instead. (I am guessing the reallocated funds from the one-stop subway isn't enough to get the LRT to Sheppard or beyond to Malvern.)

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That makes no sense at all why would they want to do that? would Metrolinx even let them do it or the province? Plus I don't think the city or the TTC board is in a good position to be calling Metrolinx out on projects taking longer then they should.

TTC Board wants Crosstown East + West done by 2021. Metrolinx apparently can't get it done until something ridiculous like 2026. TTC Board consequently wants TTC to take over the project to expedite its progress. TTC CEO is actually quite reluctant to take over this project, but he admits that the TTC does have a ton of in house experience managing similar projects, and will ask his staff to put together a schedule for the extensions.

It also should be noted that Metrolinx doesnt have the greatest track record managing the Crosstown project. Metrolinx is already two years behind schedule, which is something that the TTC warned would happen back in 2012.

Whoever can get it done faster should be selected.

 

[Steve X]

TTC Board wants Crosstown East + West done by 2021. Metrolinx apparently can't get it done until something ridiculous like 2026. TTC Board consequently wants TTC to take over the project to expedite its progress. TTC CEO is actually quite reluctant to take over this project, but he admits that the TTC does have a ton of in house experience managing similar projects, and will ask his staff to put together a schedule for the extensions.

It also should be noted that Metrolinx doesnt have the greatest track record managing the Crosstown project. Metrolinx is already two years behind schedule, which is something that the TTC warned would happen back in 2012.

Whoever can get it done faster should be selected.

It wasn't Metrolinx fault but Queen's Park's cash flow. They don't want to start the project as quick so their budget looks better.

If they really want the project to move faster, they could have ordered 6 TBMs, start all tunneling at the same time instead of a 2 year delay between the Black Creek and Bencliffe launch shafts. They would have dug the stations during tunneling. If the started in 2012, by end of 2014, the tunnels would be done and the stations are already dug out. Between 2013-2017 would be station construction phase. This whole line could open by 2018. The Confederation LRT in Ottawa is only taking 5 years. Then again, Bombardier would have delivered like 20-30 LRVs which is enough for a train every 15 minutes.

 

[muller877]

TTC Board wants Crosstown East + West done by 2021. Metrolinx apparently can't get it done until something ridiculous like 2026. TTC Board consequently wants TTC to take over the project to expedite its progress. TTC CEO is actually quite reluctant to take over this project, but he admits that the TTC does have a ton of in house experience managing similar projects, and will ask his staff to put together a schedule for the extensions.

It also should be noted that Metrolinx doesnt have the greatest track record managing the Crosstown project. Metrolinx is already two years behind schedule, which is something that the TTC warned would happen back in 2012.

Whoever can get it done faster should be selected.

And we will get the speed and cost and like St Clair? TTC managed the community interest really well! No thank you.

 

[EnviroTO]

The Spadina-York subway was funded in 2006 and will open 2017. The Eglinton Crosstown was funded in 2009 and will open in 2021. So the Spadina-York extension which was a 6 station extension to an existing line with no major interchange stations or obstacles is only 1 year less that a completely brand new line with 13 underground stations including 2 subway interchange stations, 2 GO interchange stations, and one outside the underground section which is a combined subway and GO station. So the TTC and Metrolinx aren't significantly different at this point, except that Metrolinx seems to have a plan with buffer already built in, while the TTC is actually late to plan.

 

[Tuck]

TTC Board wants Crosstown East + West done by 2021. Metrolinx apparently can't get it done until something ridiculous like 2026. TTC Board consequently wants TTC to take over the project to expedite its progress. TTC CEO is actually quite reluctant to take over this project, but he admits that the TTC does have a ton of in house experience managing similar projects, and will ask his staff to put together a schedule for the extensions.

It also should be noted that Metrolinx doesnt have the greatest track record managing the Crosstown project. Metrolinx is already two years behind schedule, which is something that the TTC warned would happen back in 2012.

Whoever can get it done faster should be selected.

2026? Are they mad?!

 

[Palma]

Hey, don't get that thing tangled in the catenary.

I'm hearing that Plant World may be slated for redevelopment. Even more reason to keep an eye on stop spacing. This line needs to be fast, and not an all-stops local route.

- Paul

from plant world to royal york its 350 metres (within walking distance). From Plant World to Scarlet Rd its more like 900 metres so that means with any new development at Plant World, people can walk to Royal York to hop on. A mid block stop is not needed

 

[TheTigerMaster]

And we will get the speed and cost and like St Clair? TTC managed the community interest really well! No thank you.

1. St Clair's project scope, and cost, was expanded by Council. St Clair's budget overruns have been wildly exaggerated
2. My only interest is seeing Crosstown extensions completed in a timely manner, and somewhere near budget. Preliminary schedules thus far have been unacceptable. We can't wait til 2021 to see this enter construction, or it will be canceled. Whoever can get this thing safely built in the fastest amount of time should build it. And it needs to enter construction soon.

 

[Tuck]

1. St Clair's project scope, and cost, was expanded by Council. St Clair's budget overruns have been wildly exaggerated
2. My only interest is seeing Crosstown extensions completed in a timely manner, and somewhere near budget. Preliminary schedules thus far have been unacceptable. We can't wait til 2021 to see this enter construction, or it will be canceled. Whoever can get this thing safely built in the fastest amount of time should build it. And it needs to enter construction soon.

Well, to be fair we are talking about a city that likes cancelling projects after they've already started being built. So shovels in the ground might not even be enough to save the ECT E/W if someone sets their heart to cancelling it.

Granted, I don't actually thing that would happen as it seems like council is on board (And these days there'd probably be a huge outroar for cancelling a needed transit route), but we've seen flip flops before.

 

[Palma]

That's just wrong, removing most of those stops would result in stop spacing of nearly a kilometre or more in most cases, just way to long and with little overall benefit.

And it's been mentioned before why moving the stop at UTSC is not necessary.

but again who will walk 1 km from 1 stop to the other? If you live at midway point of 2 LRT stops 1 kM apart, you are 500 metres away from either stop and can choose which to go to, either east or west. If you are east of that 500 meres obviously the closet stop is the next LRT stop going east and if you are west of the 500 metre you walk west. 500 meter walk is doable. If one lives closer to 1 LRT stop why would that person walk 1 KLM away to the next. Makes no sense. I think people forget to think logically

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Well, to be fair we are talking about a city that likes cancelling projects after they've already started being built. So shovels in the ground might not even be enough to save the ECT E/W if someone sets their heart to cancelling it.

Granted, I don't actually thing that would happen as it seems like council is on board (And these days there'd probably be a huge outroar for cancelling a needed transit route), but we've seen flip flops before.

It being under construction makes cancelation 10x more difficult. The goal of Mihevic's motion seems to be to have Crosstown East and West under construction before the next election in 2018. Based on prior TTC schedules, this should be achievable.

For Crosstown West, it's TPAP (expedited EA for transit projects) should take less than 6 months, because it'll be an amendment of the old TPAP done back in the 2000s (full TPAPs take approx. 6 months to complete). That means that upon receiving Council approval in June, its TPAP can be done before the end of 2016. Concurrently, design work necessary for initial tender can begin. Not all design work needs to be complete before initiating tender. Based on other the Scarborough Subway project, the design + tender phase can be done in 1.5 years, and from that point shovels can immediately go in the ground, sometime in early to mid 2018, with completion in 2020 (assuming it takes 2 years to build the surface section, as is planned with the current surface section).

Crosstown East would be a little more complicated, since it hasn't had any geotechnical or TPAP done. For the Scarborough Subway it'll take 1 year 11 months to start geotech work, complete the TPAP, tender and start construction. I don't think Crosstown East would take any longer than that, since it is a simpler project. So we'd be looking at a construction start date between mid and late 2018, and completion in 2020/2021. The Chief Planner does note that time does need to be dedicated to redesigning Kennedy interchange to accommodate Crosstown East. But if our goal is to start construction as soon as possible, there is no reason why we can't start construction on the surface section east of Kennedy, while waiting for the design of the Kennedy interchange to be complete. Even the central portion of the Crosstown was well into construction before the stations were designed. Also mind that Kennedy Station has always been designed with Malvern LRT in mind, so it's not as if we're designing the interchange from scratch.

Any claims that this thing can't possible enter construction until the 2020s smells like hogwash to me. I look forward to seeing the schedule the TTC proposes.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

but again who will walk 1 km from 1 stop to the other? If you live at midway point of 2 LRT stops 1 kM apart, you are 500 metres away from either stop and can choose which to go to, either east or west. If you are east of that 500 meres obviously the closet stop is the next LRT stop going east and if you are west of the 500 metre you walk west. 500 meter walk is doable. If one lives closer to 1 LRT stop why would that person walk 1 KLM away to the next. Makes no sense. I think people forget to think logically

People don't tend to live exactly midpoint between stops along Crosstown East/West. They live in the neighbourhood adjacent, to the north and south sides of Eglinton. It might be 500 metres alone to get just to Eglinton from their house. If their 'entrance' spot on Eglinton is midway between two stops, then they must walk another 500m towards the stop. You are in fact asking them to walk 1km when you are proposing to remove stops.

Example here - If someone lived on Princess Margaret and Bemersyde, instead of walking 500 metres to their stop, you would have them walk 1km to either Islington or Kipling.

Aside from costs, you aren't gaining much from cutting the stop. It is not like having stops every 500-600 metres instead of 1km would prevent the LRT from achieving fast speeds.