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Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
I know. I completely forgot about Eglinton West station. Sigh... such a stupid question.
The sad thing is that I completely remembered that the reason the TBM couldn't cross Yonge was because of the Yonge Line. No such luck with me remembering the existence of Eglinton West Station.
I need to rest my brain
Does it hurt?
[video=youtube_share;evlrs5Bi_6E]http://youtu.be/evlrs5Bi_6E[/video]
Sorry... couldn't resist.
howl
Active Member
Exactly. You don't want to over build, but you do want the most robust system that can serve your ridership targets. You also have to account for future growth and balance that with the financing of capital costs.
howl
Active Member
I was using numbers for the maximum possible for that type of vehicle, not numbers for current TTC stock. If I used numbers for current TTC stock the wags would say: Well what about the Volvo B12M Biarticulated bus that holds 200 people? and What about the Flexity Freedom in its 251 passenger configuration?
nfitz
Superstar
There's no way you get 200 people in any 18-metre artic. And there's no way a Flexity Freedom has almost double the capacity of a TTC Flexity ... that puts more people in the car per metre of length than a much-wider subway car - reality is that it would be much less because not only is it narrow, but the % of space taken up by seating is higher.
aquateam
Active Member
You have to be aware that whenever these passenger numbers are quoted for the vehicles there are normally three figures: the seated load, design load, and crush load. Design load is a reasonable number for what you can fit in, crush load is almost like one of those competitions where you see how many people you can fit into a mini cooper.
nfitz
Superstar
Sure. But 200 as crush load? Only if you stack children. They are only 50% longer than a regular bus. So 133 on a regular bus? What do they do, sit on the roof?
DarnDirtyApe
Active Member
Others did a fine job in pointing out why it was impractical, and I didn't find the need to pile on. Let's just drop it, okay?
I think that question of what to call the in-median portion of the Crosstown is ultimately a pointless endeavor. Most people (including transit professionals) aren't so fussy about mode classification - in fact, the TTC's map of higher-order transit services is called "subway system map" despite the fact that it clearly includes the Scarborough RT, and now the 192 Airport Rocket. Presumably they took off the Harbourfront route when it became clear that it was no faster than any other surface route, whereas the in-median portion of the Crosstown will be faster than an equivalent bus route.
Ozman
Active Member
I believe you've got it backwards, TM. The video appears to show Lea breaking through while the hole (to the north) for Dennis remains unbroken.
So not only did Lea win, but it was a come-from-behind victory after Dennis got quite the head-start! So far it's Leaside 1, Mt. Dennis 0.
On another note, I love the names of the TBM's and I get that they started with Dennis and Lea as the two end-points of the tunnel but's ironic that Lea will never be tunneling through (under) the Town of Leaside.
And on the east tunnel drive, Humber will never be tunneling anywhere near the Humber River. Perhaps they should have done the west with Dennis and Humber and the east with Lea and Don.
Just a minor quibble as I'm musing out loud.
robmausser
Senior Member
LRTs are also wider than a normal bus. And one trainset of these LRT's is longer than a typical bus. The Flexities are twice the length of a bus, and the LRT's for Eglinton LRT are even bigger than the Flexities.
nfitz
Superstar
The question I had is how do you get 200 people on an 18-metre articulated bus when TTC says 77. I'm sure you can always cram a few more on.
The Flexities are 2.5 times as long as a bus. However the LRVs for Eglinton are the same length as the TTC Flexity which only holds 130. It is true that they are 0.11 metres wider (width of 2.65 metres compared to 2.54 metres) - but that's only 4% wider.
How then do you get from 130 people to 250 people, other than perhaps for a grade 1 field trip or if Toronto hosts the 2017 World Dwarf Games.
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Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
Don't forget the Eglinton LRV's will be running as trains. They are supposed to start with two-car trains. Two-car trains would be double the capacity. There is allowance for three-car trains (at the moment) which would triple the carrying capacity. Driven by one operator outside, using ATO (automatic train operation) in the tunnels where they could serve as guards.
nfitz
Superstar
If you can only get 130 people on a single car, how do you get 750 on the 3-car train - which was what was stated above?
How does running the cars in trains allow you to fit more people in each car?
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
They will not be running single cars, except if the numbers warrant it. They'll just add more cars to the train. It not bigger in the inside than the outside, unless they allow access to the cabs. Off duty operators may use them, though, if they carry the keys with them.
