Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
Which wouldn't be a problem if only we had a south-side alignment.....
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Palma
Senior Member
So if there are so few of them why appease them? I mean what if people came out to say that Avenue Road needed a stop or Spadina. Then what? Would they then see who has the most people coming out and give them the stop?
ehlow
Senior Member
Just wait until the LRT is closer to opening. The amount of people complaining that their bus stop will be removed will reach epic levels. I've seen it in person at public meetings.
Palma
Senior Member
Well at least once the LRT is close to opening nothing can be done in terms of adding more stops. Why would Metrolinx care if people complain. They are not elected and the MPP can say he is trying to get an LRT station for a particular street (even if he knows it won't happen) and thats it.
eltodesukane
New Member
Toronto Subway LRT map has a long way to go when you compare it to other cities.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_eye/..._quest_to_standardize_the_world_s_subway.html
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_eye/..._quest_to_standardize_the_world_s_subway.html
Translude15
Frank the Tank
Age and development wise, those cities would be like great-grandfathers whereas Toronto is a young adolescent. Patience is a virtue.
ehlow
Senior Member
Yes and most of those cities have way larger population. But anyways this isn't really the right thread to discuss that, it seems.
cplchanb
Senior Member
No offense, but a better analogy is that Toronto is more like a malnourished child in a developing world where each passing time would only make things worse....
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
Nope, even developing countries have large transit systems.
Just going through Wikipedia, Istanbul, Kiev, Bucharest, Tehran, Santiago, Kuala Lampur, Sao Palao, Rio De Janeiro, Buenos Aires currently have a bigger metro system than us and are expanding at a much faster rate than we are.
There are a few more in China, SouthEast Asia, and Lagos that are building an entire system of comparable or bigger size to what we have currently from scratch, to be opened in a few years.
I think the biggest shock by far is Los Angeles, a city that is by all means entirely car-dominated, that is building lines non-stop. And its residents are even supportive and happy to pay taxes for it!
ehlow
Senior Member
From a developed world perspective and a North American one, my understanding is that the best time to develop a subway network in a relatively cheap way was the early 1900's. That's when many networks like NYC, Chicago, Boston, Philly were built, same with Paris, London. Currently I believe we're in the ballpark of Chicago & Boston in terms of population, but back then we were a much smaller city than those. Things like cost of labour, safety regulations, accessibility requirements, and property prices now make building transit more expensive in the developed world.
In North America, most of the cities listed above haven't built many new lines in the later quarter of the 20th century. In the west coast, many of the new transit lines are LRTs. I believe that LA's new LRT lines are often along hydro corridors or rail corridors, so they don't involve expensive tunnelling. Portland has been building LRTs, Vancouver uses Skytrain.
Chinese cities and other developing countries are probably at a similar stage as say NYC back in the early 1900's, except possibly even more so with bigger populations, no regulations or restrictions and cheap labour. Their city's populations are 5x-10x Toronto, so it's not even comparable.
Interesting post on this:
http://stevemunro.ca/?p=9275
In North America, most of the cities listed above haven't built many new lines in the later quarter of the 20th century. In the west coast, many of the new transit lines are LRTs. I believe that LA's new LRT lines are often along hydro corridors or rail corridors, so they don't involve expensive tunnelling. Portland has been building LRTs, Vancouver uses Skytrain.
Chinese cities and other developing countries are probably at a similar stage as say NYC back in the early 1900's, except possibly even more so with bigger populations, no regulations or restrictions and cheap labour. Their city's populations are 5x-10x Toronto, so it's not even comparable.
Interesting post on this:
http://stevemunro.ca/?p=9275
RC8
Senior Member
When you consider that GO Transit is also a thing, and that our streetcar network is much better than most bus lines in the developing cities you listed, Toronto has a decent transit network.
If you actually experienced living in the outskirts of one of the cities you listed, you would see the experience is not much better (or worse) than taking transit here in Toronto from the likes of Scarborough or Mississauga.
cplchanb
Senior Member
I have to say a streetcar in toronto is really much for the most part like a bus on rails since many of the routes are mixed in with traffic jams which arguably make it worse than a wheeled vehicle.
I think the point of his argument is that unlike toronto, there is a strong united desire to get the job done and to invest in a long term transit plan. Sure we have have fancy pipe dreams of a utopian toronto, but those either get shelved either by the slightest scare of the bill or lost in translation by bickering politicians. Obviously the cities that are investing in large infrastructure have capital, but theyare taking a risk too, but they have a spine to do it as the long term benefits far outweigh the short term losses. That combined with a solid long term growth plan that doesnt get jumbled with each election equals progress.
remember if our most inglorious mayor hadnt cancelled sheppard and finch LRT and then restarted it, both would already be done or very near done by now and eglinton would be much more farther in progress. Unfortunately because of it we are years behind and way overcost. At this point it is better to have a plan that is even half decent than having no plan and spiraling around in endless talking.
howl
Active Member
New York is current building a new subway line (Second Avenue Subway). Washington DC is currently building a new transit (partially underground) line (Silver line)
rbt
Senior Member
I'm not sure this is a good example; that statement was said in the 70's too.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
It's also only something like 2km long.