[smallspy]

It makes total sense for Eglinton to have atleast a "roughed-in" underground or elevated station at Don Mills for a potential DRL connection. This is what Vancouver did with the Canada Line at 33rd Ave. The station is not open and there are no plans to open it anytime soon but eventually as the area builds up the station will be opened. By having it already roughed=in, they have made that option MUCH less costly and disruptive. If the TTC had any forsight they would have done the same with Spadina's new Sheppard West station and especially considering how much they are paying for these suburban stations.

To say that "everything should be roughed-in" is wasteful in the extreme. There are situations where it should be done, and others where it shouldn't.

If anything is built, it will then have to be maintained - no matter how "roughed-in" it is. Does it make sense for something to be built that will then sit unused, empty, and draining resources for 100 years? You think that the TTC doesn't do any work to the roughed-in station at Queen?

No, what needs to be done is to figure out what the plan is for that location, and build accordingly. Downsview Station may not have a box roughed-in for a western extension of the Sheppard Line, but it was planned for it to happen, and so as many of the underground utilities were built out of the way as reasonably possible to help the process. The same with a future station at Willowdale on Sheppard. If no station is projected for 20 or 30 years at Leslie and Eglinton, than make it so that one CAN be built in the future if necessary, but don't waste any more time, money and effort than is necessary.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[GenerationW]

I'm amused that so many here are commenting on what the area needs, that don't know the area. While Leslie does stop at Eglinton, there is another small piece further south between Vanderhoof and Wickstead. Essentially Vanderhoof curves to the south where it turns into Leslie which stops at Wickstead - though the road ROW continues south to Thorncliffe Park Drive (and of course reappears near the lake).

Great for useless trivia buffs but meaningless for everyone else. For most if not all practical purposes, that stretch of Leslie starts/ends at Eglinton.

 

[UD2]

I'm amused that so many here are commenting on what the area needs, that don't know the area. While Leslie does stop at Eglinton, there is another small piece further south between Vanderhoof and Wickstead. Essentially Vanderhoof curves to the south where it turns into Leslie which stops at Wickstead - though the road ROW continues south to Thorncliffe Park Drive (and of course reappears near the lake).

Google Maps is wrong, BTW ... but if you jump into Google Streetview you can clearly see Leslie Street signs at both Research Road and Wickstead Avenue. The correct road names are visible on the City of Toronto mapping tool - http://map.toronto.ca/imapit/iMapIt.jsp

And certainly, if you drive through the area, the Leslie St signs are quite visible at Wickstead!

Currently, I agree. But what if there was 50,000 people living in the Leslie/Wickstead area in 50 years - the area is ripe for redevelopment.

in this case i stand corrected about Leslie meeting Wickstead. However, the intersection you're talking about have no impact on this discussion.

 

[BurlOak]

I don't think there is any need at all for a leslie station. I drive by the area every Thursday. As I see it by driving, leslie ends at eglinton, and there is nothing of note at leslie that would require putting a stop there.

Thats another advantage to running at grade on a south side alignment (portal in hillside, bridge over West Don, twin tunnels through CPR embankment), It would be much easier to add a Leslie street station in the future. This could serve Leslie (intersection and buses) and a future GO on the CPR tracks.

 

[drum118]

I understand the reason why Metrolinx is calling for a 2 year shut down of this line when it comes time to built the Leslie Station.

The line is below the river level and is a twin bore where the North York Centre was a square box line. Easier to build a station using a square box than a bore as well keeping the line open during the construction.

Being that deep and a twin bore, it will require a huge deep hole to be dug just to get to the line and then cutting out of the tunnel bores to put in the box for the station.

It goes back to the idea of keeping the line on the surface along the south side and going under the CP track bridge. It will be far cheaper doing this than what is plan.

 

[gweed123]

I understand the reason why Metrolinx is calling for a 2 year shut down of this line when it comes time to built the Leslie Station.

The line is below the river level and is a twin bore where the North York Centre was a square box line. Easier to build a station using a square box than a bore as well keeping the line open during the construction.

Being that deep and a twin bore, it will require a huge deep hole to be dug just to get to the line and then cutting out of the tunnel bores to put in the box for the station.

It goes back to the idea of keeping the line on the surface along the south side and going under the CP track bridge. It will be far cheaper doing this than what is plan.

I agree that the 'south side of Leslie' is probably the better approach, but either of those is better than the in-median design they had previously, so I'm going to take what I can get at this point .

 

[Rainforest]

I always thought that the south-of-the road option is the best solution for this stretch, and was surprised when they decided to just tunnel all the way to Don Mills.

However, is it possible that they know something that we don't know? The cost of two portals, the bridge over West Don, and the CPR underpass actually exceeding the cost of continuous tunneling?

 

[BurlOak]

I always thought that the south-of-the road option is the best solution for this stretch, and was surprised when they decided to just tunnel all the way to Don Mills.

However, is it possible that they know something that we don't know? The cost of two portals, the bridge over West Don, and the CPR underpass actually exceeding the cost of continuous tunneling?

I would guess that maybe it is cheaper to design with only a tunnel - all be it a longer tunnel. The bridge over the West Don and the CPR tunnels would involve several different designs - which would be more work. However, the shorter tunnel seems less expensive and the bridge and CPR tunnels could be built by separate crews so the Contractor would prefer it since these tasks would not be on the critical path. I imagine the Contractor would probably propose the south side option and pocket some of the savings for themselves.

 

[gweed123]

I would guess that maybe it is cheaper to design with only a tunnel - all be it a longer tunnel. The bridge over the West Don and the CPR tunnels would involve several different designs - which would be more work. However, the shorter tunnel seems less expensive and the bridge and CPR tunnels could be built by separate crews so the Contractor would prefer it since these tasks would not be on the critical path. I imagine the Contractor would probably propose the south side option and pocket some of the savings for themselves.

That's a very likely reason. I also suspect it has something to do with TBM launch sites. It's probably a lot easier for them to take up a corner of the Science Centre parking lot (Provincially-owned land too) for a few years, where there are no residences around, rather than trying to squeeze into an area on the south side of Eglinton near Laird. Just look at how hemmed in the Black Creek launch site is. With the parking lot, they can fence off a much larger area and do their work with only a minimal disruption to traffic.

 

[nfitz]

in this case i stand corrected about Leslie meeting Wickstead. However, the intersection you're talking about have no impact on this discussion.

It's a semi-vacant industrial wasteland, so it does have little impact. But what will it be in 50 years? What if it's a dense urban area with a pedestrian walkway to near where Leslie station would be?

Great for useless trivia buffs but meaningless for everyone else. For most if not all practical purposes, that stretch of Leslie starts/ends at Eglinton.

I mentioned the intersection simply in having a discussion about how the area could change in 50 years. Surely anyone who frequents the area is well familiar with that intersection, as it's the back-up way to get from Leslie to Thorncliffe when there Don Mills Road trouble (Leslie to Brentcliffe to Vanderhoof to Leslie to Wickstead to Beth Nealson to Overlea). But as often is the case, the "experts" don't frequent the area often enough to actually know the area properly.

 

[UD2]

It's a semi-vacant industrial wasteland, so it does have little impact. But what will it be in 50 years? What if it's a dense urban area with a pedestrian walkway to near where Leslie station would be?

I mentioned the intersection simply in having a discussion about how the area could change in 50 years. Surely anyone who frequents the area is well familiar with that intersection, as it's the back-up way to get from Leslie to Thorncliffe when there Don Mills Road trouble (Leslie to Brentcliffe to Vanderhoof to Leslie to Wickstead to Beth Nealson to Overlea). But as often is the case, the "experts" don't frequent the area often enough to actually know the area properly.

If Toronto takes the same stance on its employment areas as Markham (and I hope it does), this area will likely remain industrial for decades to come. A bus services to nearby station would be much more effective and economical.
Even if the area gets developed, this station will be at least 250 meters beyond the edge of any potential activity area. Which means people living further south would be taking a bus to Laird anyways.

 

[ssiguy2]

Miller had wet dreams about turning the Golden Mile, Jane/Finch, and Sheppard thru Scarberia as some bohemian wonderland.
For all his fuzzy talk it exemplifies a shocking lack of urban planning.

The reality is that areas like the Golden Mile are just as much part of the urban fabric as are The Beaches, Yorkville, or Kensington Market. Cities don't just run on shops and restaurants and commercial and industrial development are just as vital to a city's properity and liveability as are those interesting neighbourhoods. Contrary to Miller's understanding, Parisiens do not buy their cars along the Left Bank and don't gas them at the back of a cafe. The kids don't go to school over looking the Seine, not all their parents work in a pastry shop, and people don't go to The Louvre to buy their furniture.

It is esseential for a city to have these commercial areas not only for their economic vitality but even for their transportation systems. If every square foot of a city is turned over to residential development you get the horrific transportation problem that Vancouver has found itself in.........reverse commuting.

 

[Thoughtless Miscreant]

Contrary to Miller's understanding, Parisiens do not buy their cars along the Left Bank and don't gas them at the back of a cafe. The kids don't go to school over looking the Seine, not all their parents work in a pastry shop, and people don't go to The Louvre to buy their furniture.

If you literally think there are no schools or gas stations or furniture stores in central Paris then I think it might be you who doesn't understand how cities work.

 

[Wrenkin]

If you literally think there are no schools or gas stations or furniture stores in central Paris then I think it might be you who doesn't understand how cities work.

I believe there are actually car showrooms on the Champs Elysees. They just don't keep the stock on site. Same thing in London, where there are high-end dealerships facing Hyde Park.

 

[timio]

If you literally think there are no schools or gas stations or furniture stores in central Paris then I think it might be you who doesn't understand how cities work.

If I remember correctly, I remember seeing a gas station built into the first floor of a building along Metro Line 6 near the Eiffel Tower when I was there a few years back.