[McGillicuddy]

Someone on the TTC Reddit thread is saying that someone told them that a Line 5 operator told them that there is an easy solution to this, and it's to disable the emergency brake system

And while we're doing that, one great way to speed the line up would be to just not open or close the doors at stops. This would reduce dwell times to nearly nothing, and eliminate the risk of a delay to a passenger alarm.

 

[duffo]

From what I've heard about the current state of the line, both publicly and privately, I think it's most likely than not at this point that Feb 8th doesn't happen. But I want to maintain some hope!

 

[urbanclient]

Someone on the TTC Reddit thread is saying that someone told them that a Line 5 operator told them that there is an easy solution to this, and it's to disable the emergency brake system

Fairly certain it's being unintentionally misrepresented by the Globe here. It's the automatic braking that happens if the operator exceeds the (arbitrary) speed limits in a certain section, or gets "too close" to the train ahead. Both Line 5 and 6 have these automatic failsafes programmed in the signalling system.
****See edit and last screenshot****

Worst case is the train loses signal and emergency brakes because it doesn't know where it is EDIT: apparently it might be GIDS causing the emergency braking, among other reasons.

Example from Line 5 op below, eastbound trains at Wynford cannot depart until the train ahead has departed Sloane. I would assume this bottleneck leads to bunching west of Wynford if the same restriction does not exist at Aga Khan.

I am told this is called Automatic Train Protection and ATP Enforcement braking.

 

[KhalilHeron]

Fairly certain it's being unintentionally misrepresented by the Globe here. It's the automatic braking that happens if the operator exceeds the (arbitrary) speed limits in a certain section, or gets "too close" to the train ahead. Both Line 5 and 6 have these automatic failsafes programmed in the signalling system.

Worst case is the train loses signal and emergency brakes because it doesn't know where it is EDIT: apparently it might be GIDS causing the emergency braking as well

Example from Line 5 op below, eastbound trains at Wynford cannot depart until the train ahead has departed Sloane. I would assume this bottleneck leads to bunching west of Wynford if the same restriction does not exist at Aga Khan.

I am told this is called Automatic Train Protection and ATP Enforcement braking.

View attachment 711761View attachment 711769

Big difference if its just automatically braking with normal brakes or if the emergency brakes are misfiring. Magnetic emergency brakes stop the vehicle very abruptly and can injure riders on board, and potentially do damage to the tracks.

 

[81-717]

Magnetic emergency brakes stop the vehicle very abruptly and can injure riders on board, and potentially do damage to the tracks.

The good thing about subways (unlike trams/LRTs) is that they don't have them, and thus have higher ground clearance.

 

[urbanclient]

The good thing about subways (unlike trams/LRTs) is that they don't have them, and thus have higher ground clearance.

Haha, as devil's advocate, I don't know if not having magnetic brakes is objectively good, and having higher ground clearance is the main reason why they don't have magnetic brakes no? Not the other way around? (Beware those that may defend LRTs to their last breath).

Edit: apparently magnetic brakes are critical for avoiding collisions with cars and pedestrians in street-level environments. Go figure.

 

[81-717]

and having higher ground clearance is the main reason why they don't have magnetic brakes no? Not the other way around?

I'm not sure if that's a legit concern that goes into designing vehicles, but it's good to know if true.

Beware those that may defend LRTs to their last breath

lol, I sure am aware, and I personally think it's the primary driving force behind the pro-subway/anti-LRT community, they're averse to trams/LRTs because on a subconscious level they reject the tramlike vehicle design and near-0 ground clearance due to track brakes.

Edit: apparently magnetic brakes are critical for avoiding collisions with cars and pedestrians in street-level environments. Go figure.

Numerous crossings with GO/VIA & especially freight seem to think otherwise, though.

 

[urbanclient]

Numerous crossings with GO/VIA & especially freight seem to think otherwise, though.

To be fair, what is the likelihood that a pedestrian with headphones walks in front of a GO or freight train at a protected crossing. Not saying it's never happened.

Trams in Europe interact with pedestrians at a level that would induce pearl-clutching here. That's why they have magnetic brakes. Apparently a small handful of high floor and commuter rail type trains are adopting them as well.

Regarding Vision Zero / Zero Vision: dozens of people die every year in Toronto due to cars hitting each other, cars hitting pedestrians, motorcycles hitting trees etc. But god forbid a transit vehicle cause a single fatal accident. Good in theory, bad in practice. All excessively slow transit will do is push more people to drive or ride illegal e-scooters i.e. push people to riskier transportation modes https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-data-traffic-deaths-2025-9.7038262

So sick and tired of the TTC's "nanny" like behaviour towards it's riders and the people of Toronto. I even heard Jamal Myers mention during his recent press conference that "Vision Zero" was being applied to streetcars and LRTs. Really???

Meanwhile in Manchester the TfGM actually treats people like adults and operates normally with the expectation that some nutcase won't jump in front of a moving tram. And if they do, it's their own damn fault.

I dare not show this video to one of the TTC board members. They'll probably have a heart attack. I was definitely having some mild culture shock. I was constantly wondering why people were risking standing so close to a moving tram.

 

[officedweller]

Helps that the front of the Manchester LRT is painted bright yellow (rather than white and gray).

 

[christiesplits]

Fairly certain it's being unintentionally misrepresented by the Globe here. It's the automatic braking that happens if the operator exceeds the (arbitrary) speed limits in a certain section, or gets "too close" to the train ahead. Both Line 5 and 6 have these automatic failsafes programmed in the signalling system.

Worst case is the train loses signal and emergency brakes because it doesn't know where it is EDIT: apparently it might be GIDS causing the emergency braking, among other reasons.

Example from Line 5 op below, eastbound trains at Wynford cannot depart until the train ahead has departed Sloane. I would assume this bottleneck leads to bunching west of Wynford if the same restriction does not exist at Aga Khan.

I am told this is called Automatic Train Protection and ATP Enforcement braking.

View attachment 711761View attachment 711769
View attachment 711777

What will be the top speed on opening day? 10 km/h?

 

[crs1026]

The good news is, we know the brakes work. That's much more reassuring than the alternative.

The smoking gun here is, the control systems, which are IT. We aren't reading that the tracks are the wrong gauge, or the foundation is sinking, or (eyeroll) the slab somewhere is cracked. The line is fundamentally complete. But nothing fouls things up like technology glitches.

Having the brakes come on may or may not be hazardous to riders. It likely causes delays while the operator confirms there is no issue, possibly seeks authority from control to proceed, possibly has to reset on the tram or wait for some system reset from the control center. That kind of thing stops operation and creates bunching. So yeah it's an operability concern that would undermine reputation and rider confidence in the product.

If we are down to that one issue, it's a good thing. All we can do is be patient. And there better not be any misalignment between vendors, contractors, and transit agencies in finding a solution. Definitely all hands on deck, work out any contractual issues later, just get it done.

- Paul

 

[toronto647]

Is this line opening on Feb 8?

 

[Chaplinurbex]

The good news is, we know the brakes work. That's much more reassuring than the alternative.

The smoking gun here is, the control systems, which are IT. We aren't reading that the tracks are the wrong gauge, or the foundation is sinking, or (eyeroll) the slab somewhere is cracked. The line is fundamentally complete. But nothing fouls things up like technology glitches.

Having the brakes come on may or may not be hazardous to riders. It likely causes delays while the operator confirms there is no issue, possibly seeks authority from control to proceed, possibly has to reset on the tram or wait for some system reset from the control center. That kind of thing stops operation and creates bunching. So yeah it's an operability concern that would undermine reputation and rider confidence in the product.

If we are down to that one issue, it's a good thing. All we can do is be patient. And there better not be any misalignment between vendors, contractors, and transit agencies in finding a solution. Definitely all hands on deck, work out any contractual issues later, just get it done.

- Paul

I like this positive thinking and rational analysis.

 

[pleaseLRT]

Is this line opening on Feb 8?

Apparently maybe per WearyInspection5396's comment:

"As of right now that’s what we’re preparing for, however we’ve been told in no uncertain terms that they can pull the plug on that any minute if there’s a new problem, or if the weather is going to be bad. Management is currently working on revised scheduling to see how much they can water down the service to minimize the number trains on the line to reduce the chance of some ongoing issues creating negative PR on launch day."

 

[Northern Light]

Apparently maybe per WearyInspection5396's comment:

"As of right now that’s what we’re preparing for, however we’ve been told in no uncertain terms that they can pull the plug on that any minute if there’s a new problem, or if the weather is going to be bad. Management is currently working on revised scheduling to see how much they can water down the service to minimize the number trains on the line to reduce the chance of some ongoing issues creating negative PR on launch day."

Watering down the service, ie. reducing the frequency, more great publicity incoming.

Public comment: "Train was a great ride, except for the 1/3 of the line where it didn't operate, and the 20 minute wait for a tram"