duffo
Active Member
Because that costs money.
They are running them overnight instead of parking them, because they don't have the space right now. Which benefits us riders but probably isn't great for SOGR...
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They are running them overnight instead of parking them, because they don't have the space right now. Which benefits us riders but probably isn't great for SOGR...
nfitz
Superstar
Overnight being a few extra cars for the 4-hour period between 2 AM and 6 AM.
Are the 303/305/312 routes only temporary?
jordanmkasla2009
Active Member
If temporary they'll be in place for a long time while Hillcrest yard gets refitted and Russell carhouse yard gets redone. even then there still won't be enough storage space for cars.
nfitz
Superstar
In a city where we've closed the on-ramp from Lakeshore East to the Gardiner temporarily for 9 years - I considered that temporary.
Hopefully by the 2030s or so when full storage is available, the temporary will then become permanent, with expectations of 20-minute service and the acceptance of all night streetcars.
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
Here’s about 10 mins of Line 5 testing from this past week I stumbled upon on YouTube. Trains seem to be moving at a decent clip in the Golden Mile.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
Noticed at the 5:15 mark, at the traffic signals, NO TRANSIT PRIORITY. OK, the trains did not have 200 to 400 people onboard, but still if they were "testing", they should assume there were people onboard. The single-occupant autos turning left went ahead of the waiting light rail trains. Just like on the streetcar right-of-ways, no real transit priority. The single-occupant SUV's in Toronto get priority over the 200+ people onboard streetcars and light rail vehicles.
nfitz
Superstar
I have no doubt that it's been cocked up. But I don't know if they've turned everything on yet. Also, in this case, had there been passengers aboard, the first train would have gotten to the platform earlier - but the second train in the opposite direction would have missed the light, because it was still at ths stop. Also a function of where the trains are at relative to schedule, and what lights they are going to hit next.
Optimizing this stuff - even with a huge priority for rail - isn't simple.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
Maybe that is the "software" problem? They can't give light rail vehicles the priority because they don't know how to code it with a different priority. Can't override or change the code, so they're giving up. No "real" transit priority in Toronto.
T3G
Senior Member
Do you have any proof?
duffo
Active Member
This isn't a conspiracy, the TSP only kicks in if the trains are behind schedule. In other words, there is a certain "acceptable" amount of waiting at red lights built into the schedule.
jordanmkasla2009
Active Member
I'm just glad they got the clearance to go line speed now so people can stop claiming they're going to be just as slow as the legacy streetcar network.
Rogue2016
New Member
Toronto Star flagged this concern as well citing concerns over route management and lack of transit signal priority using the 512 St. Clair as an example.
www.thestar.com
"Even on other routes where streetcars have been given some dedicated road space, like King Street, Spadina Avenue and Queens Quay, service speed and reliability have generally been getting worse, not better.
There are plenty of reasons for this, but let’s focus on two of the big ones: bad route management and a near-total absence of transit signal priority at intersections.
Let’s start with the route management. According to the metrics reported monthly by interim CEO Greg Percy, TTC surface vehicles are considered “on-time” if they enter service anywhere between one minute early and five minutes late. As a result, GPS maps will often show streetcars and buses roving the city in packs as if there’s strength in numbers, but because the vehicles were technically on-time when they started, little is done to fix it.
Maybe that wouldn’t matter as much if transit vehicles were guaranteed a quick green light at intersections, so they could travel fast. But this kind of technology — dubbed transit signal priority — has long been promised but never really delivered at Toronto city hall, despite some big talk. City hall’s transportation department seems allergic to really giving transit vehicles priority over single occupant vehicles, so real priority has been very limited.
Together, these two failures — poor route management and bad or non-existent transit priority — could easily spell disaster for the Eglinton LRT once it starts service. I hope I’m wrong. Especially because better management and signal priority on the surface section of the Eglinton line would likely translate to better management of other surface routes."
Eglinton Crosstown LRT finally has an opening date — but the TTC’s service on the line may fall short for these two reasons
Matt Elliott: Eglinton Crosstown LRT finally has an opening date — but the TTC’s service on the line may fall short for these two reasons
The TTC has given us years of reasons to think it’ll screw up the operating of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT once it finally opens.
www.thestar.com
"Even on other routes where streetcars have been given some dedicated road space, like King Street, Spadina Avenue and Queens Quay, service speed and reliability have generally been getting worse, not better.
There are plenty of reasons for this, but let’s focus on two of the big ones: bad route management and a near-total absence of transit signal priority at intersections.
Let’s start with the route management. According to the metrics reported monthly by interim CEO Greg Percy, TTC surface vehicles are considered “on-time” if they enter service anywhere between one minute early and five minutes late. As a result, GPS maps will often show streetcars and buses roving the city in packs as if there’s strength in numbers, but because the vehicles were technically on-time when they started, little is done to fix it.
Maybe that wouldn’t matter as much if transit vehicles were guaranteed a quick green light at intersections, so they could travel fast. But this kind of technology — dubbed transit signal priority — has long been promised but never really delivered at Toronto city hall, despite some big talk. City hall’s transportation department seems allergic to really giving transit vehicles priority over single occupant vehicles, so real priority has been very limited.
Together, these two failures — poor route management and bad or non-existent transit priority — could easily spell disaster for the Eglinton LRT once it starts service. I hope I’m wrong. Especially because better management and signal priority on the surface section of the Eglinton line would likely translate to better management of other surface routes."
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
Toronto's Transportation Services refuses or is unable to ask, beg, request, or teach MTO (Ontario government) to update their traffic sign regulations. Ontario refuses to even look to Europe to see how to improve traffic regulations at all.Toronto Star flagged this concern as well citing concerns over route management and lack of transit signal priority using the 512 St. Clair as an example.
Eglinton Crosstown LRT finally has an opening date — but the TTC’s service on the line may fall short for these two reasons
Matt Elliott: Eglinton Crosstown LRT finally has an opening date — but the TTC’s service on the line may fall short for these two reasons
The TTC has given us years of reasons to think it’ll screw up the operating of the Eglinton Crosstown LRT once it finally opens.
"Even on other routes where streetcars have been given some dedicated road space, like King Street, Spadina Avenue and Queens Quay, service speed and reliability have generally been getting worse, not better.
There are plenty of reasons for this, but let’s focus on two of the big ones: bad route management and a near-total absence of transit signal priority at intersections.
Let’s start with the route management. According to the metrics reported monthly by interim CEO Greg Percy, TTC surface vehicles are considered “on-time” if they enter service anywhere between one minute early and five minutes late. As a result, GPS maps will often show streetcars and buses roving the city in packs as if there’s strength in numbers, but because the vehicles were technically on-time when they started, little is done to fix it.
Maybe that wouldn’t matter as much if transit vehicles were guaranteed a quick green light at intersections, so they could travel fast. But this kind of technology — dubbed transit signal priority — has long been promised but never really delivered at Toronto city hall, despite some big talk. City hall’s transportation department seems allergic to really giving transit vehicles priority over single occupant vehicles, so real priority has been very limited.
Together, these two failures — poor route management and bad or non-existent transit priority — could easily spell disaster for the Eglinton LRT once it starts service. I hope I’m wrong. Especially because better management and signal priority on the surface section of the Eglinton line would likely translate to better management of other surface routes."
At the Eglinton Avenue West and Weston Road intersection, next to the Mount Dennis Station, they added "left turn" signals. Along with "signage clutter". "Signage clutter" that other jurisdiction go without. Why? Just look...
The left turn green arrows...
The left turn yellow arrows. Oops, I mean the left turn yellow signal...
And the left turn red arrows. Oops, I mean the left turn red signal, since "red arrows" are illegal in Ontario...
Wouldn't it be better if we used red turn signals? Maybe black arrows on a red background for the colour blind folks, to tell the difference between the other colour arrows?
Other jurisdictions use the red arrow WITHOUT signage clutter.
nfitz
Superstar
I disagree. I don't see how the signage slows down service. It's who has priority that's the issue.
Monarch Butterfly
Superstar
Et si je ne lis pas l'anglais ?