[daniel_kryz]

Secret letters detail Ford government efforts to control Ontario’s supposedly arm’s-length transit agency

From link.



Translated... after "careful examination" there will not be full transit priority because the automobile is "king" in Doug Ford's mind (allegedly).

There won't be transit priority for Toronto LRTs because City Hall (or Transportation Services) made that decision. It wasn't up to MX. Hurontario will have transit priority!

 

[Tunafish13]

Im conflicted, because i've definitely seen transit specific signalling at many of the above ground stations (similar to the signalling on Spadina for the streetcars) and I dont know if that counts as TSP or not....

I can post pictures if people want to see what im talking about

 

[ADRM]

Ottawa, and to a lesser extent Kitchener struggled to bring in people who knew the gear, local staff spent a lot of time learning on the fly from documentation.

FWIW, Ottawa also brought in a team of TTC operators to help them work through their issues in the early going.

 

[Amare]

Im conflicted, because i've definitely seen transit specific signalling at many of the above ground stations (similar to the signalling on Spadina for the streetcars) and I dont know if that counts as TSP or not....

I can post pictures if people want to see what im talking about

The signaling is there, however it isnt activated. Basically it's just a set of traffic lights for streetcars right now.

 

[Ozman]

Like others have said; I'd like to be more optimistic but I can't really see it happening. There is so much more work to be done - a lot of it technical/electrical/signal stuff that requires a lot of diligence and testing to get right and to iron all the bugs out.

I live near the construction and have attended most of the meetings, and open-houses and have followed the progress closely since 2007 here and else-where on-line. Based on how long it's taken to get this far, I can't seem them opening for revenue service in 25 months. (As a matter of fact the scheduled start is exactly that - September 29, 2021.)

One thing that I haven't heard mentioned too much is the fact that there have been no (major) delays so far, at least that they (Metrolinx and Crosslinx) have publicly admitted. Thank goodness for that, but just think if a strike at one or two of the unions happens then the schedule is completely out the window. Or worse, if a major accident happened all work could stop for an inquest (rightfully so) but that would set things back years.

Imagine, heaven forbid, that a collapse occurred at Cedarvale or Eglinton & Yonge. Even if no one was injured or killed, Line 1 could be severely compromised and this would paralyze public transit in this city for months or years not too mention set back Line 5 construction.

So far (fingers crossed) we've avoided these major and less-major calamities but based on other transit projects (here and elsewhere) I don't see everything staying right on schedule. One advantage might be that it is a completely new line so retro-fitting and trying to simultaneously run an existing service with slightly different technologies is not an issue with the Crosstown.

Finally, I question at what point Metrolinx will actually admit they are behind. Having gone to many meetings I have little confidence that they will either have the knowledge or the desire to be upfront with the public. They just tell you what you want to hear and also those who know don't seem to talk and those talk rarely know too much.

Hopefully I'm proven wrong and we'll be gliding under Eglinton in two years time and everything will have gone swimmingly.

For now my prediction for opening day of revenue service is August 1, 2023.

I don't prefer quoting myself, but I said the above on August 29, 2019. And that was before I knew of the problems/delays under the Line 1 Eglinton Station and certainly before COVID.

At this point I'm sticking with my prediction for revenue service: August 1, 2023.

 

[robmausser]

I think so. There's very few pieces of Crosstown that's actually new to Toronto. The LRVs, rails, communication system, signalling system, etc. are very similar to things TTC already uses on a day-to-day basis. Finding emergency consultants for problems should be easy. Crosstown will likely be similar to the Spadina extension hand-off timeline; though that project did include a substantial new to Toronto piece (the automated control system).

Ottawa, and to a lesser extent Kitchener struggled to bring in people who knew the gear, local staff spent a lot of time learning on the fly from documentation.

Also, one would HOPE that many of the bugs on the ION vehicles will have been fixed on these ones, as they are the same model, and any issues resolved with the confederation line will have been learned and passed on to this project.

One would hope, but this is government so you never know.

 

[gweed123]

Also, one would HOPE that many of the bugs on the ION vehicles will have been fixed on these ones, as they are the same model, and any issues resolved with the confederation line will have been learned and passed on to this project.

One would hope, but this is government so you never know.

To extend that logic, Ottawa's experience should help Metrolinx's commissioning of Finch West, since they're using the same vehicles. I'm thinking specifically of the door issues.

 

[smallspy]

The signaling is there, however it isnt activated. Basically it's just a set of traffic lights for streetcars right now.

That's not actually specifically true.

The streetcar signals work via a loop sensor between the rails mounted far enough back from the intersection that the hope is that there is enough time to change the lights to be favourable for the streetcars. And due to where they are located, it works better at some intersections than others.

It's not true predictive signal priority, which the Transportation Department is against, but it's something. And that's likely what will be installed along the surface sections of Eglinton.

Dan

 

[Amare]

That's not actually specifically true.

The streetcar signals work via a loop sensor between the rails mounted far enough back from the intersection that the hope is that there is enough time to change the lights to be favourable for the streetcars. And due to where they are located, it works better at some intersections than others.

It's not true predictive signal priority, which the Transportation Department is against, but it's something. And that's likely what will be installed along the surface sections of Eglinton.

Dan

Sounds similar to Traffic Priority Signalling, is that what you're referring to? Or is this something completely separate?

 

[vz64]

Secret letters detail Ford government efforts to control Ontario’s supposedly arm’s-length transit agency

From link.



Translated... after "careful examination" there will not be full transit priority because the automobile is "king" in Doug Ford's mind (allegedly).

I think a signal priority could help a bit, but it would not solve the problem of too many surface crossing... With frequency of 5 min, we have two trains passing each intersection, each 2 m 30 sec. Minus time to cross (say 15 sec) and some buffer time to change the light (another 15 sec) it leaves only 2 min. So, if traffic light is green for left turns, there is a good chance that a train will need to stop anyway and then to wait for the crossing traffic...

 

[robmausser]

I think a signal priority could help a bit, but it would not solve the problem of too many surface crossing... With frequency of 5 min, we have two trains passing each intersection, each 2 m 30 sec. Minus time to cross (say 15 sec) and some buffer time to change the light (another 15 sec) it leaves only 2 min. So, if traffic light is green for left turns, there is a good chance that a train will need to stop anyway and then to wait for the crossing traffic...

I wonder if just smart traffic lights would help as well, especially during not busy times.

They are testing out smart traffic lights in my area (north of yonge and eg) and its really helped with the fact that this stretch of yonge has so many small intersections. In the past, the lights would change red on yonge and traffic would stop when no car or pedestrian was crossing, they just were on a timer.

Now with the smart lights, not only does it manage traffic better, but the lights on yonge never change red unless there is a car or a person wanting to cross.

Perhaps this would help the LRT line as well, for the above mentioned. Along with transit priority.

For example the smart lights use camera sensors, and would detect when there isnt a car turning left, so it would skip the left turn priority, allowing LRTs to move forward sooner, even if they get caught behind the transit priority.

The ground sensors alone arent reliable enough to do this, they still change the light to an advanced left, because sometimes they dont get tripped.

They can also do things like change a green light to red of an intersecting road faster when there are no more cars going through the intersection. So they also speed up dwell times, as you arent waiting for a light to change back to green when there are no more cars going the other way through the intersection.

All these things can help mitigate the dwell time when an LRT doesnt make it through transit priority, like in the example of another LRT ahead of it, etc.

 

[Aplus23]

Mount Dennis / keesedale / science center / Kennedy station will all be at over 80% completed this year.

The surface section will be nearly completed this year.

This line will be open before 2023 I have faith

 

[robmausser]

To extend that logic, Ottawa's experience should help Metrolinx's commissioning of Finch West, since they're using the same vehicles. I'm thinking specifically of the door issues.

and the cracked wheels!

 

[kali]

I wonder if just smart traffic lights would help as well, especially during not busy times.

They are testing out smart traffic lights in my area (north of yonge and eg) and its really helped with the fact that this stretch of yonge has so many small intersections. In the past, the lights would change red on yonge and traffic would stop when no car or pedestrian was crossing, they just were on a timer.

Now with the smart lights, not only does it manage traffic better, but the lights on yonge never change red unless there is a car or a person wanting to cross.

Perhaps this would help the LRT line as well, for the above mentioned. Along with transit priority.

For example the smart lights use camera sensors, and would detect when there isnt a car turning left, so it would skip the left turn priority, allowing LRTs to move forward sooner, even if they get caught behind the transit priority.

The ground sensors alone arent reliable enough to do this, they still change the light to an advanced left, because sometimes they dont get tripped.

They can also do things like change a green light to red of an intersecting road faster when there are no more cars going through the intersection. So they also speed up dwell times, as you arent waiting for a light to change back to green when there are no more cars going the other way through the intersection.

All these things can help mitigate the dwell time when an LRT doesnt make it through transit priority, like in the example of another LRT ahead of it, etc.

Minor intersections throughout the entire GTA need this.

 

[Coolstar]

Mount Dennis / keesedale / science center / Kennedy station will all be at over 80% completed this year.

The surface section will be nearly completed this year.

This line will be open before 2023 I have faith

Add in Caledonia too because that station is progressing quite well too.