[Eug]

Whatever the figure ends up being, it is still nothing compared to what the city will have to spend buying and operating buses for the cancelled lines. Ford may also burn through more money pursuing his delusional subway fantasy.

It would be interesting to compare projected operating costs of LRT vs. bus in those corridors. Given that some of those routes might have underutilized LRT capacity, I suspect the real operating costs of LRT in the near to mid-term would actually be higher than bus, or at best, not much lower than bus.

Don't get me wrong... I personally don't like taking the bus, but don't mind LRT, but I'm just not understanding your point about costs for running those lines. Remember, the up front cost of bus is much, much less than LRT, and the operating costs of bus and LRT are probably roughly in the same ballpark, after considering the up front costs.

 

[Voltz]

It would be interesting to compare projected operating costs of LRT vs. bus in those corridors. Given that some of those routes might have underutilized LRT capacity, I suspect the real operating costs of LRT in the near to mid-term would actually be higher than bus, or at best, not much lower than bus.

Don't get me wrong... I personally don't like taking the bus, but don't mind LRT, but I'm just not understanding your point about costs for running those lines. Remember, the up front cost of bus is much, much less than LRT, and the operating costs of bus and LRT are probably roughly in the same ballpark, after considering the up front costs.

Yes, operating costs may be higher for LRT in some parts of the lines initially, but we would have have vehicles with twice the lifespan and capacity of a bus paid for, that capital cost is still a major expense to the city that Ford has incurred.

 

[tabeesh]

Crosstown Video

The crosstown has a video overview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWyMQGKrlu0

http://www.thecrosstown.ca/news-media/whats-new/video-an-overview-of-the-crosstown

 

[MetroMan]

FYI: This is news to me but TransitCity has not been officially killed off. Gord Perks says that this must still go to a council vote. Given how City Council has suddenly come to their senses and discovered their power to block the Mayor, it wouldn't be surprising if they rejected cancelling Transit City which comes with very large contract breaking penalties.

I'm all for the Eglinton crosstown, but I think that burying it all is a huge misplacement of funds. I like how the new line will replace the SRT but I feel that the above ground portion previously planned should be built that way and those funds directed back at the Finch LRT and the Sheppard LRT. I preferred a continuation of Sheppard as a subway but not at the cost of cancelling the rest of TransitCity and losing Federal funding.

I think that the Finch LRT was the biggest lost opportunity. The land is there to build an above ground rapid transit line without sacrificing car lanes, the plans were done and the province had committed the money. This part of Toronto needs this line badly.

What do you all think Council will do? Entirely reject Ford's move to cancel TransitCity and revert back to the original plan? Accept the whole idea? Find a hybrid idea that will preserve some of TransitCity lines?

 

[nfitz]

FYI: This is news to me but TransitCity has not been officially killed off.

Yes ... interesting isn't it. The irony is Ford might have had a better chance of pushing this through council 6 months ago, than after his monorail wet dream, and before it became clear just how financially unsustainable the Sheppard subway extension is.

In a way it's a shame ... the revised Metrolinx plan to build the subway under Eglinton from Kennedy to Jane makes such an improvement to travel times, that it would provide some serious relief to the Danforth line. On the other hand, we could do a lot more with that $2-billion.

Too early to tell what will happen. Let's see how the election goes, and then how Ford packages the Sheppard subway to council ... which is surely also a huge factor in this.

 

[rbt]

Yes ... interesting isn't it. The irony is Ford might have had a better chance of pushing this through council 6 months ago, than after his monorail wet dream, and before it became clear just how financially unsustainable the Sheppard subway extension is.

The real irony will be when council cuts the Ford Plan and reinstates transit city as a budget savings measure to prevent paying back that minimum $49 Million.

 

[Dan416]

The real irony will be when council cuts the Ford Plan and reinstates transit city as a budget savings measure to prevent paying back that minimum $49 Million.

Okay let's not get delusional now.

 

[ssiguy2]

I'm curious, where did the Toronto money for TC go?
Remember when it was first announce the City said it would pay for one third and then Queen's Park came by and said they would fund the city's portion. How exactly was the city going to get those funds and can they still raise those funds to satrt a DRL?

 

[Eug]

The crosstown has a video overview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWyMQGKrlu0

http://www.thecrosstown.ca/news-media/whats-new/video-an-overview-of-the-crosstown

Thanks for the link. It actually provides some limited simple, but useful information for the layperson, and has good production quality without looking overproduced. The two people in the video aren't particularly slick, but they're real people: Peter Allibone, Chief Project Manager, and Franca Di Giovanni, Community Liaison.

http://thecrosstown.ca/

P.S. Here is the illustration of the launch site in case you haven't already seen it:

And here is a hypothetical station, illustrating the pedestrian traffic flow:

---

P.P.S. On another topic: Regarding Transit City, I wasn't aware of this, but maybe it's just because I don't follow these things as closely as some of you do:

Peak ridership for the Eglinton section of the Eglinton-Crosstown is projected to hit 12000 pphpd, in 2031. This is an enormous increase from the projected numbers from Transit City's Eglinton section (5000 pphpd), because most of those people coming from the outer parts would have just transferred from the LRT to Bloor-Danforth.

What was the max capacity in terms of passengers per hour per direction for the Transit City LRT design?

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

In Steve Munro's blog (at this link), Steve made this comment:

I was just on Ledrew Live as part of the audience for Tim Hudak’s appearance. I asked him about transit funding, but he made disparaging comments about both Transit City and Metrolinx. He supports Ford’s transit plans, and thinks that long range transit planning is a waste of time. He is obviously out of sync with his own transport critic.

Transit planning a waste of time? We have another Mike Harris waiting in the wings.

 

[jje1000]

Transit planning a waste of time? We have another Mike Harris waiting in the wings.

I have that gut feeling that our streetcars are not going to make it if Hudak gets in.

 

[Inkarnate]

...this guy cannot be serious? Kick him out of the election entirely!

 

[MetroMan]

Whatever happens in the election, it's going to be a minority government and if Hudak becomes Premier (shudder) both the NDP and the Liberals will be holding a lot of power. Neither of them would let our transportation strategy be cancelled -- specially the NDP.

 

[nfitz]

I'd think things like Eglinton funding and funding for new streetcars would be at the cabinet level, and wouldn't require any votes in the legislature. The NDP and Liberals would make noise ... but would they really be willing to push for non-confidence and an election over funding for Toronto ... that doesn't play well in the rest of the province.

Though I think a Hudak minority is extremely unlikely. That would mean that the NDP/Liberals have more seats ... so I figure they'd be the minority ... unless the Tories manage to swing some kind of coalition government with the NDP ... and I can't recall there ever being a coalition government in Ontario.

 

[gweed123]

P.P.S. On another topic: Regarding Transit City, I wasn't aware of this, but maybe it's just because I don't follow these things as closely as some of you do:

Peak ridership for the Eglinton section of the Eglinton-Crosstown is projected to hit 12000 pphpd, in 2031. This is an enormous increase from the projected numbers from Transit City's Eglinton section (5000 pphpd), because most of those people coming from the outer parts would have just transferred from the LRT to Bloor-Danforth.

What was the max capacity in terms of passengers per hour per direction for the Transit City LRT design?

Crush Load: 200 people per car x 3 cars x 40 trains per hour (1 vehicle every 1.5 mins) = 24,000 pphpd
Comfortable Load: 150 people per car x 3 cars x 40 trains per hour = 18,000 pphpd

In order to carry 12,000 pphpd you'd need 27 Comfortable Load trains per hour, or 1 train every 2 mins 15 seconds. Very doable.