[TRONto]

I imagine it will attract a market share, even at a higher price. There are plenty of people who would exchange a ride in a more comfortable, less crowded, more reliable vehicle for a price increment. Others will continue to take the bus because it's more affordable, and will accept the slower/less pleasant ride to get the lowest cost.

One issue is the impact on transit revenue when that slice of the market abandons the bus. And I'm not crazy about the overall wage erosion vs public transit employment. And how many Uber vehicles will it take to replace even a single bus - not great for road congestion?

I expect transit agencies will complain bitterly about the loss of revenue - but will any attempt to improve their service to actually compete on price or comfort? I expect not.

- Paul

North American transit systems typically don't prioritize safety. That's why in Toronto a large portion of women don't want to take transit. They have to choose if they are going to prioritize safety (enforcement of existing rules) and have people use transit or being a social welfare organization that misses out on ridership.

 

[lenaitch]

I imagine it will attract a market share, even at a higher price. There are plenty of people who would exchange a ride in a more comfortable, less crowded, more reliable vehicle for a price increment. Others will continue to take the bus because it's more affordable, and will accept the slower/less pleasant ride to get the lowest cost.

One issue is the impact on transit revenue when that slice of the market abandons the bus. And I'm not crazy about the overall wage erosion vs public transit employment. And how many Uber vehicles will it take to replace even a single bus - not great for road congestion?

I expect transit agencies will complain bitterly about the loss of revenue - but will any attempt to improve their service to actually compete on price or comfort? I expect not.

- Paul

Uber has certainly wandered astray from its 'rideshare' roots; a bunch of somebodies making a few bucks on the side with their personal vehicle.

I foresee a lot of regulatory hurdles if they tried that in Ontario. Seeing as one needs an elevated driver's licence class in most, if not all, jurisdictions (Class C with a Z endorsement in Ontario), I'd be curious who would want to drive for them instead of a transit authority with union wages and benefits. Unless there are people with a transit bus in their driveway, this would make Uber an employer, with all that goes along with that; a status they try to avoid like the plague.

 

[afransen]

I imagine it will attract a market share, even at a higher price. There are plenty of people who would exchange a ride in a more comfortable, less crowded, more reliable vehicle for a price increment. Others will continue to take the bus because it's more affordable, and will accept the slower/less pleasant ride to get the lowest cost.

One issue is the impact on transit revenue when that slice of the market abandons the bus. And I'm not crazy about the overall wage erosion vs public transit employment. And how many Uber vehicles will it take to replace even a single bus - not great for road congestion?

I expect transit agencies will complain bitterly about the loss of revenue - but will any attempt to improve their service to actually compete on price or comfort? I expect not.

- Paul

Let's be real, these vehicles will be automated in the not-too-distant future.

The big concern is going to be cheaper ridehail eroding transit. Although it is possible that people who forego car ownership because of robotaxi may use transit more, for some trips that they currently drive. Buses are the most expensive to provide on a per-passenger basis, so perhaps it is not the end of the world if demand for buses drop off. It would be good if we enabled that through active means as well, like cycling.

 

[afransen]

I foresee a lot of regulatory hurdles if they tried that in Ontario. Seeing as one needs an elevated driver's licence class in most, if not all, jurisdictions (Class C with a Z endorsement in Ontario), I'd be curious who would want to drive for them instead of a transit authority with union wages and benefits. Unless there are people with a transit bus in their driveway, this would make Uber an employer, with all that goes along with that; a status they try to avoid like the plague.

Uber is not using commercial buses for this service, just standard 4 seater cars.

How is this different than Uber Pool? I've used that in the past. In that case, you are picked up and dropped off at your destination, but you are still sharing a ride with strangers.

 

[lenaitch]

Uber is not using commercial buses for this service, just standard 4 seater cars.

How is this different than Uber Pool? I've used that in the past. In that case, you are picked up and dropped off at your destination, but you are still sharing a ride with strangers.

Missed that, thanks. It seems from their NY example it is not cheaper - far from it, but might have some market in places where there is no transit option, or for those who simply refuse to use public transit.

 

[crs1026]

I continue to hear people (especially those in the suburbs, and especially often living in Ward 2) who declare "buses are for poor people".
I cringe at this mentality, but I have to admit - a city transit bus is a very imperfect carriage. The old joke - "I need to get downtown in the worst way" Reply - "Take the bus"
There's a market segment who would likely pay additional to ride in something nicer, even if they have to walk to a stop to find it.

- Paul

 

[CapitalSeven]

Shared Uber is just a reinvention of the jitney, or what they call a service taxi in Beirut, where public services collapsed 40 years ago and were never restored because, well, it's a completely incompetent society. If it takes hold here it's because we have incompetent transit. I recently took a two-way bus trip I could have driven for 1/4 of the money and 1/3 of the time. Both directions, off-peak, the supposedly every 15 minutes buses were travelling in packs of 2 or 3 with gaps of a half hour. Management is simply absent in the TTC, OC Transpo and many other agencies, and politicians have given up trying to fix it.

 

[afransen]

Shared Uber is just a reinvention of the jitney, or what they call a service taxi in Beirut, where public services collapsed 40 years ago and were never restored because, well, it's a completely incompetent society. If it takes hold here it's because we have incompetent transit. I recently took a two-way bus trip I could have driven for 1/4 of the money and 1/3 of the time. Both directions, off-peak, the supposedly every 15 minutes buses were travelling in packs of 2 or 3 with gaps of a half hour. Management is simply absent in the TTC, OC Transpo and many other agencies, and politicians have given up trying to fix it.

I mostly use Uber for shortish trips that would take 3-4x as long by transit or trips where I need to bring a lot of things with me, like luggage to the airport, and only if I can't drive for whatever reason (like paying long term parking at Pearson). For the rest I either drive or take transit. I've used Uber Pool to get to work when my car was out of commission. Transit was a laughable option. I could have walked to work in only slightly more than the time transit would take. Cycling would take half the time of transit.

 

[Jonny5]

I mostly use Uber for shortish trips that would take 3-4x as long by transit or trips where I need to bring a lot of things with me, like luggage to the airport, and only if I can't drive for whatever reason (like paying long term parking at Pearson).

Important emphasis on the short trips here and the target market.

There's a lot of talk about how it costs so much more to use Uber than the TTC, but they are tilting to a market of people who pay $7 for a gourmet coffee each morning in their office building concourse, and these people aren't "The Rich", you don't need a six-figure salary to flip to Uber (I don't have one) from the TTC to travel a modest distance downtown.

Where I am, it costs $10 to get to the office, or $13 after the tip. That's an extra $10/day on the TTC fare, but I can simply skip the coffee or make my own lunch at home and save $15/day not buying it in the foodcourt, which is what foodcourt crap costs now, and then I am relieved of the stress of the gross TTC experience, and I save all the time too, because even in Toronto's alleged horrible traffic congestion it's about a 9 minute trip door-to-door, vs. 25 minutes on the TTC, and I also don't have to listen to multiple people blabbering on their phones as loud as they possibly can the whole way, or someone literally smoking crack.

 

[Mihairokov]

Where I am, it costs $10 to get to the office, or $13 after the tip. That's an extra $10/day on the TTC fare, but I can simply skip the coffee or make my own lunch at home and save $15/day not buying it in the foodcourt, which is what foodcourt crap costs now, and then I am relieved of the stress of the gross TTC experience, and I save all the time too, because even in Toronto's alleged horrible traffic congestion it's about a 9 minute trip door-to-door, vs. 25 minutes on the TTC, and I also don't have to listen to multiple people blabbering on their phones as loud as they possibly can the whole way, or someone literally smoking crack.

Why live in a city around people if you seemingly hold so much contempt for them? Genuine question.

Like yeah, sometimes there's some people on TTC who aren't great to be around, but 99% of people are just totally normal people doing what you want to do. At least the TTC doesn't work on a system of exploiting its employees and contributing to traffic and climate change like Uber does.

 

[Jonny5]

Why live in a city around people if you seemingly hold so much contempt for them? Genuine question.

Like yeah, sometimes there's some people on TTC who aren't great to be around, but 99% of people are just totally normal people doing what you want to do. At least the TTC doesn't work on a system of exploiting its employees and contributing to traffic and climate change like Uber does.

I still use the TTC regularly, at least a trip every day. I can't afford to do every commute by taxi/rideshare, not even half, but it only takes one person to change the TTC experience from good to miserable (GO Transit too). It doesn't matter if 99% are fine, it's those who cross way over the line that are the problem because they impact everyone on the vehicle, and yes, there's always been those people, but since I moved here in 2005 they have changed from a rare anomaly to a regularly expected norm. There used to be some kind of commuter camaraderie that was a culturally accepted standard where we all want to get to work in as fast, efficient, and least disruptive way as possible, and that has been totally lost. Slobbery has now been normalised.

I recall taking College streetcars in 2005 and we all collectively knew how to make it work, how to behave in the situation of crush-load uncomfortable situations on those CLRVs. We were all in it together and accepted that camaraderie to make it the best possible experience for everyone.

Now the TTC riders are enshittified and care only about themselves. No one else matters to them. It wouldn't even cross their minds to ever think about anyone else. So what's happening is that generation that was used to that experience and funded it with their fare revenue have dropped it and are gone, and they don't see any reason to continue to subsidise it either, so Uber has come along and said "you can have the same experience you used to have for only a little bit more."

All I am saying is how the market changed. The TTC has lost the middle class in the downtown both because they let the system go to shit, and the rapid change in social norms over the past five years has turned anti-social behaviour into defacto accepted as normal.

But it's not normal. It's horrible.

 

[gabe]

I still use the TTC regularly, at least a trip every day. I can't afford to do every commute by taxi/rideshare, not even half, but it only takes one person to change the TTC experience from good to miserable (GO Transit too). It doesn't matter if 99% are fine, it's those who cross way over the line that are the problem because they impact everyone on the vehicle, and yes, there's always been those people, but since I moved here in 2005 they have changed from a rare anomaly to a regularly expected norm. There used to be some kind of commuter camaraderie that was a culturally accepted norm where we all want to get to work in as fast, efficient , and least disruptive way as possible, and that has been totally lost. Slobbery has now been normalised.

I recall taking College streetcars in 2005 and we all collectively knew how to make it work, how to behave in the situation of crush-load uncomfortable situations on those CLRVs. We were all in it together and accepted that camaraderie to make it the best possible experience for everyone.

Now the TTC riders are enshittified and care only about themselves. No one else matters to them. It wouldn't even cross their minds to ever think about anyone else. So what's happening is that generation that was used to that experience and funded it with their fare revenue have dropped it and are gone, and they don't see any reason to continue to subsidise it either, so Uber has come along and said "you can have the same experience you used to have for only a little bit more."

All I am saying is how the market changed. The TTC has lost the middle class in the downtown both because they let the system go to shit, and the rapid change in social norms over the past five years hsve turned anti-social behaviour into defacto accepted as normal.

But it's not normal. It's horrible.

Uber does come in handy. Just last weekend outside my friends house that I was visiting, It was around 11 pm. This TTC bus stops in the street. its not a stop either, and everyone on the bus runs out coughing their lungs out.. Some crazy person huffing something out of a can, stank the whole bus up with fumes. Cops were called, but by the time they arrived the person was long gone. They had to tow the bus away and send in another one to pick up the stranded passengers. Some passengers got Ubers, and others waited for the new bus to show up.

 

[ShonTron]

I still use the TTC regularly, at least a trip every day. I can't afford to do every commute by taxi/rideshare, not even half, but it only takes one person to change the TTC experience from good to miserable (GO Transit too). It doesn't matter if 99% are fine, it's those who cross way over the line that are the problem because they impact everyone on the vehicle, and yes, there's always been those people, but since I moved here in 2005 they have changed from a rare anomaly to a regularly expected norm. There used to be some kind of commuter camaraderie that was a culturally accepted norm where we all want to get to work in as fast, efficient , and least disruptive way as possible, and that has been totally lost. Slobbery has now been normalised.

I recall taking College streetcars in 2005 and we all collectively knew how to make it work, how to behave in the situation of crush-load uncomfortable situations on those CLRVs. We were all in it together and accepted that camaraderie to make it the best possible experience for everyone.

Now the TTC riders are enshittified and care only about themselves. No one else matters to them. It wouldn't even cross their minds to ever think about anyone else. So what's happening is that generation that was used to that experience and funded it with their fare revenue have dropped it and are gone, and they don't see any reason to continue to subsidise it either, so Uber has come along and said "you can have the same experience you used to have for only a little bit more."

All I am saying is how the market changed. The TTC has lost the middle class in the downtown both because they let the system go to shit, and the rapid change in social norms over the past five years hsve turned anti-social behaviour into defacto accepted as normal.

But it's not normal. It's horrible.

You think it’s just transit riders? There’s been a demonstrative decline in driver etiquette and safety.

 

[T3G]

You think it’s just transit riders? There’s been a demonstrative decline in driver etiquette and safety.

It's not limited to any one field - it's absolutely everywhere, the shadow pandemic of the 2020s. Since COVID, people have been nastier to each other than any time that I can remember.

 

[evandyk]

Because I both start and end near a subway station, I don't think there's any way an uber could ever compete on travel time, unless the city somehow solved traffic completely. I could drive from my office to my house faster than taking the subway on a Sunday morning, or in the middle of the night, but that's about it.

Buses and streetcars are another story, of course, but that's because of all the cars slowing them down.

I take my son (now six years old) to school/camps every day on the TTC. If it was dangerous or unpleasant on more than a very occasional basis, I'd find another way. It really is not.