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There is a school of thought that argues that modern Li-Ion battery technology can negate the need for AIP. Battery safety in an enclosed, submerged tube, remains a concern. Beyond my mental paygrade but I have seen it mentioned.
All non-nuke submarines have been battery powered, so I assume the tech and safety is well sorted. Hydrogen-powered subs would be interesting and novel, since the vessel is surrounded in dihydrogen monoxide H₂O. Hydrogen has been tried before, with the British using hydrogen peroxide H₂O₂ their 1950s Explorer-class submarines, but it was a disaster.
 
All non-nuke submarines have been battery powered, so I assume the tech and safety is well sorted. Hydrogen-powered subs would be interesting and novel, since the vessel is surrounded in dihydrogen monoxide H₂O. Hydrogen has been tried before, with the British using hydrogen peroxide H₂O₂ their 1950s Explorer-class submarines, but it was a disaster.
As far as I understand, until recently, non-nuclear submarines have traditionally used a type of lead-acid battery. Lithium-Ion and other emerging battery technologies are a fairly recent development.

 
I think the Korean boat, with its significantly larger displacement (3,300 tons) may be the better boat for extended AIP ops. The Victoria class are 2,400 ton boats, which to be fair is about the same as the Type 212CD offered by Germany. But all that aside, we should stay with NATO sources, and I'd say go German.


Canada's very first European-sourced submarine was also German, HMCS U-190. Before that, our subs were US-sourced, then followed by the British Oberons and Upholders.

The concern is that we wouldn't be getting any of the 212s until 2035 or later.

Yep. And that's not a small concern. A gap of a few years is not a small thing. It's very hard to reconstitute a submarine force from scratch.

Given the German proposal for a delay of years, and their smaller sub and the lack of commitment to tech transfer, I am rooting for the Koreans.
 
Yep. And that's not a small concern. A gap of a few years is not a small thing. It's very hard to reconstitute a submarine force from scratch.

Given the German proposal for a delay of years, and their smaller sub and the lack of commitment to tech transfer, I am rooting for the Koreans.
My vote is that we buy both. Order six Koreans for fast delivery in 2030s, and order six Germans for delivery in the 2040s. And if the Germans demonstrate that they cannot avoid delays we can swap back to Korean.
 
My vote is that we buy both. Order six Koreans for fast delivery in 2030s, and order six Germans for delivery in the 2040s. And if the Germans demonstrate that they cannot avoid delays we can swap back to Korean.
Trying to maintain two tiny, high-tech, high-risk fleets would be massively complex and costly.
 
Nevermind maintaining them - you'd need two separate crew or crosstrain them to operate both types - not sure how viable that is.

AoD
We're not reinventing the wheel here. Modern navies already cross-train for multiple aircraft, vehicles, and ship classes. India has simultaneously operated Russian (Kilo-class) and German (Type 209) submarines, and more recently added French Scorpènes. They’ve run three different submarine designs in parallel for decades. Brazil still operates German Type 209s while bringing in their French Scorpène-based Riachuelo-class boats. No matter what we buy, we'll be operating two types, the Victorias and the Germans/Koreans during the transition phase. Running two classes lets Canada stagger replacements and refits, avoiding the “all eggs in one basket” issue when a single class is grounded or aging out. I think we should consider buying them both.
 
We're not reinventing the wheel here. Modern navies already cross-train for multiple aircraft, vehicles, and ship classes. India has simultaneously operated Russian (Kilo-class) and German (Type 209) submarines, and more recently added French Scorpènes. They’ve run three different submarine designs in parallel for decades. Brazil still operates German Type 209s while bringing in their French Scorpène-based Riachuelo-class boats. No matter what we buy, we'll be operating two types, the Victorias and the Germans/Koreans during the transition phase. Running two classes lets Canada stagger replacements and refits, avoiding the “all eggs in one basket” issue when a single class is grounded or aging out. I think we should consider buying them both.
A little bit of scale is helpful. The RCN is roughly 8,500 personnel; the Indian Navy is 67,000 and the Brazilian Navy is 80,000.
 
My vote is that we buy both. Order six Koreans for fast delivery in 2030s, and order six Germans for delivery in the 2040s. And if the Germans demonstrate that they cannot avoid delays we can swap back to Korean.

This is the same argument that Gripen proponents and it'll get the same response. We don't have the personnel, infrastructure and other resources to operate multiple types without a real good reason.
 
Nevermind maintaining them - you'd need two separate crew or crosstrain them to operate both types - not sure how viable that is.

AoD

It's not just crew. Different maintainers at home port. Different engineers in Ottawa for their technical work. Different sets of supply chains for parts. Having different crews is just top of the iceberg.
 

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