[Markyeg]

Wooo -- Cadillac Fairview is miles away from figuring out the current retail trends and "mall-success" -- they are owners of several under-performing malls in Los Angeles that I am very familiar with. The fact that they are commenting on an "alternate" retail concept at all is like taking trade advice from the Orange Pumpkin.

They’re not wrong either. She may own three malls, but she’s just the landlord. Not saying I don’t like her concept, and an Asian style department store would be amazing to have here, but she has no realistic idea of the costs and timelines involved in opening up a 28 store department store chain. Especially in properties that require extensive upgrades due to the previous tenants ongoing neglect. She’d be lucky to execute her concept within a year, never mind 180 days like she’s hoping.

 

[archited]

Some thoughts... I believe that if all of her "looks" -- 28 department stores -- were to come true at the same time she would be in trouble; but she may be throwing it against the wall to see what sticks; she may also have other investors that she is not divulging publicly -- maybe Asian concerns (I know that developers from S. Korea, Japan, and Taiwan are all looking at Canada and salivating); her publicized timelines may also be a public ruse to create a "sense of urgency" in her negotiations -- a sort of "the train is leaving the station, if you want on board now is the time" for current mall owners. All in all public pronouncements are never what they seem to be in the development world, especially when you have large-dollar clout. I think her (borrowed) "concept" is just what retail needs currently -- a triplex or trifecta that combines retail with entertainment and community. It could certainly regenerate (not that they aren't already performing better than average) both Southgate and WEM. I would love it if she would take a really hard look at ICE where there is still abundant space and where her model mall would do wonders for the downtown area.

 

[Markyeg]

Not Edmonton, but Simons announced 2 stores for the former Nordstrom spaces at Yorkdale and Eaton Centre in Toronto back in June 2024. Both of those stores will be opening at the end of this month. And Simons is a department store that already has locations coast to coast and an established supply chain, which she does not.

So you’re looking at MINIMUM one year for a complete reno of the space, or for her vision. Also those two Simons stores don’t have restaurants, which she also wants in her stores, which the HBC leases would need extensive renos to accommodate a kitchen. And arguable the former Nordstrom stores would be in a better condition that the HBC leases as they would’ve had extensive renos done prior to Nordstrom moving in 15 years ago.

 

[archited]

To clear things up a little bit more... there was an operable kitchen and restaurant in the Hudson's Bay space in the Southgate location (I know because I was involved in its Health certification) and because it was part of the brand identity I suspect there was also a restaurant in the WEM location. The kitchens for each with very minor updating could serve as central kitchens for all manner of kiosk outlets in the main HBC leasable space. And the design motif that Ruby Liu is conceptualizing (it would be more deconstructionist than a Simons or almost any other department store would be going after -- ripping out t-bar and replacing it with blacked-out painted exposed slab ceiling, for example). Most of the in-store decor would be part and parcel of the interior displays that would be purchased in association with the merchandise that would be displayed as a completed unit. So I could see it all being accomplished relatively easily in a 3-month period once it is "commissioned and permitted". Tear out the carpets, stain the concrete floor, change lighting to LED (reducing not increasing electrical load) -- she mentioned that Phase I would be focused on quick turn-around; phases 2 and 3 over a more lengthy period of time would deal with concept refinements. In short and dealing with the constraints I have mentioned from a design perspective the result is entirely possible within the time-frames she has outlined.. I can't speak to other Canadian locations but I am quite familiar with these two.

 

[David A]

To clear things up a little bit more... there was an operable kitchen and restaurant in the Hudson's Bay space in the Southgate location (I know because I was involved in its Health certification) and because it was part of the brand identity I suspect there was also a restaurant in the WEM location. The kitchens for each with very minor updating could serve as central kitchens for all manner of kiosk outlets in the main HBC leasable space. And the design motif that Ruby Liu is conceptualizing (it would be more deconstructionist than a Simons or almost any other department store would be going after -- ripping out t-bar and replacing it with blacked-out painted exposed slab ceiling, for example). Most of the in-store decor would be part and parcel of the interior displays that would be purchased in association with the merchandise that would be displayed as a completed unit. So I could see it all being accomplished relatively easily in a 3-month period once it is "commissioned and permitted". Tear out the carpets, stain the concrete floor, change lighting to LED (reducing not increasing electrical load) -- she mentioned that Phase I would be focused on quick turn-around; phases 2 and 3 over a more lengthy period of time would deal with concept refinements. In short and dealing with the constraints I have mentioned from a design perspective the result is entirely possible within the time-frames she has outlined.. I can't speak to other Canadian locations but I am quite familiar with these two.

I realize people here really don't get what her vision is, it nothing like Simons which is basically conventional clothing retail, although more successful than others.

I suspect it probably looks risky and scary because it is new or not common here. The pension funds and institutional investors that own conventional malls are fairly risk adverse.

Yeah, I guess the Bay way was a very safe tenant, until it wasn't. Retail really needs to evolve with the times now.

 

[MacLac]

To clear things up a little bit more... there was an operable kitchen and restaurant in the Hudson's Bay space in the Southgate location (I know because I was involved in its Health certification) and because it was part of the brand identity I suspect there was also a restaurant in the WEM location. The kitchens for each with very minor updating could serve as central kitchens for all manner of kiosk outlets in the main HBC leasable space. And the design motif that Ruby Liu is conceptualizing (it would be more deconstructionist than a Simons or almost any other department store would be going after -- ripping out t-bar and replacing it with blacked-out painted exposed slab ceiling, for example). Most of the in-store decor would be part and parcel of the interior displays that would be purchased in association with the merchandise that would be displayed as a completed unit. So I could see it all being accomplished relatively easily in a 3-month period once it is "commissioned and permitted". Tear out the carpets, stain the concrete floor, change lighting to LED (reducing not increasing electrical load) -- she mentioned that Phase I would be focused on quick turn-around; phases 2 and 3 over a more lengthy period of time would deal with concept refinements. In short and dealing with the constraints I have mentioned from a design perspective the result is entirely possible within the time-frames she has outlined.. I can't speak to other Canadian locations but I am quite familiar with these two.

Used to eat occasionally at the Bay restaurant when I worked at the Library in the basement in the late 80's. Additionally, I also remember eating at the Woodward's restaurant on the 2nd level in the back corner in the late 70's/early 80's as a kid, this was before Eaton's took it over and shut the restaurant down and before Sears took over. Yes indeed there were 2 Eatons in the area at the same time in the early/mid 90's - the other one at Heritage Mall. I vividly remember getting the (45 vinyl of Eye of the Tiger) and getting to eat at that restaurant, amongst other occasions - it was a real treat! That place was ALWAY Packed, mostly with blue hairs, remember the red curtains - floor to ceiling that adorned the front entrance and the black and white floor tile?

 

[Gronk!]

I can't wait to see what Ruby Liu has in store for Southgate and WEM. If I was her, I probably would be pulling up stakes and leaving Canada by now. Surely she must be scouting around Australia, Europe, the States and Latin America as we speak.

 

[Gronk!]

Reitmans opened their new location last month

Zara permanently closed this past week

 

[scyeg]

The rumour is Zara only closed because they wanted (needed) to expand to a bigger space, but SG had nothing to offer them. Apparently, they could be back when something opens up. If true, maybe they could go after the university market DT instead. One can dream.

 

[David A]

The rumour is Zara only closed because they wanted (needed) to expand to a bigger space, but SG had nothing to offer them. Apparently, they could be back when something opens up. If true, maybe they could go after the university market DT instead. One can dream.

I was surprised it closed, but our downtown adjacent malls (Southgate and Kingsway) are getting close to capacity. It would be a great store to have downtown where various bigger spaces are available.