[Northern Light]

What would a hypothetical east and west Sheppard subway extension from Downsview to STC cost in the year 2025?

The SSE is currently running ~600M per km.

The western leg to Sheppard West (some have suggested Downsview Park instead) is ~4.5km

Assuming an eastern extension to McCowan, for now..... that's a further 7.4km for total a rough total of 12km.

At 600M per km, you'd be at 7.2B But realistically, those costs would have escalated since the SSE's initial contracts, based on current construction inflation, I would conservatively add 25%

So that's a ballpark of 9B. This excludes any maintenance or private-sector financing costs, and does not consider the issue of train storage which would require resolution.

I'd assume you're not a penny under 11B

 

[ARG1]

The SSE is currently running ~600M per km.

The western leg to Sheppard West (some have suggested Downsview Park instead) is ~4.5km

Assuming an eastern extension to McCowan, for now..... that's a further 7.4km for total of for a rough total of 12km.

At 600M per km, you'd be at 7.2B But realistically, those costs would have escalated since the SSE's initial contracts, based on current construction inflation, I would conservatively add 25%

So that's a ballpark of 9B. This excludes any maintenance or private-sector financing costs, and does not consider the issue of train storage which would require resolution.

I'd assume you're not a penny under 11B

To be fair, unlike the SSE it really looks like it's not going to be a 40m deep single bore tunnel that would require a massive amount of excavation to build, and at least for now it seems like they're going for the cheaper option of cut and cover and elevated construction.

That being said with how bad construction inflation is these days, I wouldn't be surprised that even with these cost savings, the project will still cost as much as the SSE per km whenever shovels actually hit the ground.

 

[Bordercollie]

To be fair, unlike the SSE it really looks like it's not going to be a 40m deep single bore tunnel that would require a massive amount of excavation to build, and at least for now it seems like they're going for the cheaper option of cut and cover and elevated construction.

That being said with how bad construction inflation is these days, I wouldn't be surprised that even with these cost savings, the project will still cost as much as the SSE per km whenever shovels actually hit the ground.

There is space for overhead construction?

 

[Aplus23]

Cut & cover would be cool, I don't think I've personally seen that used yet. Or maybe I have & don't know. The city definitely needs a northern crosstown line. Once you get to VP, the entire line should be elevated

 

[ARG1]

There is space for overhead construction?

Definitely. The only issue would be Agincourt and Sheppard-McCowan stations, the former because it might be difficult to both track clearance and have a proper interchange with Agincourt GO, and the latter because even though we're getting one for OL, an elevated to underground connection still isn't ideal.

 

[Northern Light]

Definitely. The only issue would be Agincourt and Sheppard-McCowan stations, the former because it might be difficult to both track clearance and have a proper interchange with Agincourt GO, and the latter because even though we're getting one for OL, an elevated to underground connection still isn't ideal.

Lets not understate the issue, particularly the latter section, where you have only 1.6km from Midland to McCowan.

Assuming a vertical distance from tunnel depth to elevated of 40M.............which doesn't seem unreasonable.........even at a 5% grade it would take you 800M to climb to that height, at which point you would immediately need to descend, if going underground at McCowan.

There's more play between Victoria Park and Kennedy, potentially.......but its not that easy.

*****

Also, construction will not be cut and cover under the Don Valley Parkway, it will be bored tunnel. While its possible they could switch the moment they get to the other side, that seems unlikely to me.

Same issue for going under Agincourt. Once you have fixed costs for getting the TBM down and up again. I'm not sure there's that much to be gained by going to cut and cover for a relatively short distance.

The big savings with cut and cover is station depth. Do you save enough $$ if you do only one shallow station, or above-grade station to justify changing methods?

 

[ARG1]

Lets not understate the issue, particularly the latter section, where you have only 1.6km from Midland to McCowan.

Assuming a vertical distance from tunnel depth to elevated of 40M.............which doesn't seem unreasonable.........even at a 5% grade it would take you 800M to climb to that height, at which point you would immediately need to descend, if going underground at McCowan.

There's more play between Victoria Park and Kennedy, potentially.......but its not that easy.

*****

Also, construction will not be cut and cover under the Don Valley Parkway, it will be bored tunnel. While its possible they could switch the moment they get to the other side, that seem unlikely to me.

Same issue for going under Agincourt. Once you have fixed costs for getting the TBM down and up again. I'm not sure there's that much to be gained by going to cut and cover for a relatively short distance.

The big savings with cut and cover is station depth. Do you save enough $$ if you do only one shallow station, or above-grade station to justify changing methods?

Ok I did handwave the DVP section and only considered the segment east of Consumers, but yes you are right.

 

[mikey7767]

Does anyone know if there is any movement on this project at all?

 

[Northern Light]

Does anyone know if there is any movement on this project at all?

Do you really think that we're all holding out on you? The purpose of this forum is to share knowledge and information.

Sometimes, people do know more than they say, but they don't share in order not to jeopardize their job or someone else's.....

Otherwise, people tend to flow information as soon as they can.

When we know more about the timing and details of what will unfold here, and can share..........you'll know.

 

[mikey7767]

Do you really think that we're all holding out on you? The purpose of this forum is to share knowledge and information.

Sometimes, people do know more than they say, but they don't share in order not to jeopardize their job or someone else's.....

Otherwise, people tend to flow information as soon as they can.

When we know more about the timing and details of what will unfold here, and can share..........you'll know.

You seem to be jumping to conclusions here....it's a forum, I'll say/ask what I want. It's a question, you don't need to get to dramatic about it.

 

[Northern Light]

You seem to be jumping to conclusions here....it's a forum, I'll say/ask what I want. It's a question, you don't need to get to dramatic about it.

Its a forum with rules:

UrbanToronto Rules Of Conduct

UrbanToronto Rules Of Conduct We think UrbanToronto is a wonderful resource and we want it to continue to grow. However, as in any community, anarchy can result without rules. These are the new UrbanToronto Rules of Conduct. Please familiarize yourself with these rules. Registration - Only...

urbantoronto.ca

That said, I don't wish to seem hostile/rude. That wasn't my intent. I apologize if it came off that way. But, thread bumping with 'anything new?' is generally frowned on here.

 

[generalcanada]

Its a forum with rules:

UrbanToronto Rules Of Conduct

UrbanToronto Rules Of Conduct We think UrbanToronto is a wonderful resource and we want it to continue to grow. However, as in any community, anarchy can result without rules. These are the new UrbanToronto Rules of Conduct. Please familiarize yourself with these rules. Registration - Only...

urbantoronto.ca

That said, I don't wish to seem hostile/rude. That wasn't my intent. I apologize if it came off that way. But, thread bumping with 'anything new?' is generally frowned on here.

When people pipe into dormant threads asking for an update, there are people who take offence to that.
I dont think its a problem nor that people should be scolded for it

 

[afransen]

When people pipe into dormant threads asking for an update, there are people who take offence to that.
I dont think its a problem nor that people should be scolded for it

I think it is annoying if you subscribe to a certain thread and get a notification that it is updated, only to find it is someone asking "any news?"

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

It's not a hard and fast, and not a huge issue unless someone's posting history is made out of asking for updates in multiple threads - but the last post before the inquiry from mid-January would suggest this is an active thread, and if they are any news, it will likely be posted by others.

AoD

 

[GenerationW]

Turns out it's an appropriate thread to (sort of) bump considering the upcoming election.