[just east of the creek]

403 could be widened to 6 lanes southwest of Main St fairly simply with a few caveats:

1. MTO accepted substandard shoulders on the King/Main St bridges - note that Main St bridge is now getting replaced for the LRT, so really just the King St bridge (technically 3 bridges in close proximity);
2. The Longwood Road bridge is replaced - this desperately needs replacement regardless;
3. The CP bridge is demolished - MTO has indicated in the past that they intend to demolish this rather large structure and not replace it beyond with a pedestrian bridge as it is only used as tail tracks for the CP yard now; and
4. MTO continues to have only 3 lanes climbing the escarpment (effectively removing the climbing lane).

The first is fine for me as MTO has accepted this elsewhere in the past (404 under the CN Bypass comes to mind) and the 403 already has substandard shoulders and a reduced speed limit through the area.

The second should happen anyway. The third won't be overly expensive.

The fourth is probably the biggest compromise - MTO can fill in the central median to add a new downbound lane on the escarpment access, but adding a climbing lane for the upbound lane is going to require either blasting, extensive grading, or a very long structure overhanging the escarpment edge be it a bridge or large retaining wall.

Not adding a fourth lane on the long upgrade will only offset the addition of the 'third' lane. What's the point then? Any moderate to heavy load going uphill will be compromised in speed. The fourth lane is most essential.

The other issue with the 403, like the Red Hill, like the Don Valley is that you are dealing with a geography that is and was not suited for large 100kmh plus freeway operations. Red Hill was a mistake from the get go, the 403 really needs a Doug Ford tunnel to alleviate the mountain climb, the DVP was also a mistake. All three of these will see continuing steady losses in average realized speeds as traffic increases due to continuing sprawl. Adding a lane is a momentary change to traffic patterns that will be quickly swallowed up by increasing traffic flows.

As much as I detest the idea, solutions to these issues must begin at the 407/401/413 probable interchange, continue westwards, crossing the escarpment at the existing break at the Quarry, possibly intersecting with the 401 and the Hwy 6 Morriston bypass, looping to the west of Dundas to interchange with the 403/Lincoln/Hwy 6 to Port Dover, and probably upgrading the Linc and then extending it through Regional Route 73 towards St. Catherines and around towards the QEW past Chippewa Creek, say Regional Route 47.

This will be a win win for Doug Fords closest supporters, and a detriment to much else.

Doug could also alleviate traffic with a much more aggressive regional transit network, but he is a small town car boy guy and his thought process never seems to strya very far away from those lobby groups.

 

[Fritter]

I admit no knowledge about the Mid peninsula corridor or where the beginning or end would be. If the Province were to take over the Linc and Red Hill, could a Provincial Mid peninsula corridor start where the Linc and RHVP meet and continue Eastbound toward Niagara or Fort Erie wherever it was visioned to end?

 

[innsertnamehere]

MTO has no real interest in the Mid-Penn. They did a study about a decade ago identifying that they preferred to widen the QEW instead.

This was the network they identified in a 2013 study looking at capacity in the area to accommodate growth to 2041:

Widening the QEW, adding HOVs across the Burlington Skyway, and widening the 403 was seen as adequate for several decades.

Longer term they wanted to study some sort of corridor around Hamilton / Waterdown, though this corridor is extremely highly constrained by natural features which would make it difficult and more of a longer term idea.

MTO did not see any value in the Mid-Penn south of Hamilton.

 

[ericmacm]

Agreed 100%.

While not my highest priority by a long shot, I would completely support a project that closed it and removed it and remediated the valley as much as possible (not much to be done about the blasted rock) .

I can't use harsh enough language for those approved it.

Putting a freeway through a river valley in our modern context is just such a bad thing, but given the general lack of other potential options (a river valley is unfortunately a really great way to travel down something like the escarpment without having to do huge amounts of blasting), it’s unfortunately pretty easy to see why they would have been pushing for this option for so long, and ultimately decided to go with it.

I personally think this freeway is a really good candidate for green overpass structures over low areas like what we have seen on the Herb Gray Parkway in Windsor. Combined with closing and naturalizing the King’s Forest and Glendale golf clubs, there’s a lot that can be done within the realm of reasonable practicality to help right some of the “ecological wrongs” of the past.

All in all though I’m happy to see that these are being considered for a provincial upload. It will be good for the province to take the burden on what is an increasingly important corridor in the provincial transportation context.

 

[ScreamingViking]

Frankly, I haven't mapped out an alternative. I just think an incredibly undesirable one was chosen, one that has failed to live up the hype of proponents, while being incredibly destructive to boot.

I acknowledge a need for some alternative, though, better control of sprawl 'on the mountain' would have addressed some of that issue (not all)

The main one, from what I recall, was expanding Centennial Parkway. And it was nixed due to cost and disruption to residences and businesses along the corridor. Alternatives farther east would have meant a "new" escarpment crossing that would have been prohibitive.

It's become a part of the local road network. Hard to remove, for those who still oppose it (and I was always on the fence... grew up nearby, walked and biked the trails, could see the cons as well as the pros, but after 40+ years of debate the city was like a dog with a juicy bone)

 

[ScreamingViking]

I could see cities like Windsor balking about uploading their freeways to the province if Douggie is taking Toronto's freeways and now Hamilton's.

Linc and Red Hill should really be provincial freeways, whereas the freeways in K-W are more for local traffic and thus should be municipal.

When it comes down to cost of maintaining and operating highways like the Linc/RHVP and E.C. Row, I don't think any city would balk at a provincial take-over. KW's freeways are also the gateways to places like Stratford and St. Jacobs and Elmira. I could see uploading at least the Hwy 8 portions, if they're not already provincially maintained.

 

[ericmacm]

When it comes down to cost of maintaining and operating highways like the Linc/RHVP and E.C. Row, I don't think any city would balk at a provincial take-over. KW's freeways are also the gateways to places like Stratford and St. Jacobs and Elmira. I could see uploading at least the Hwy 8 portions, if they're not already provincially maintained.

All of the ones in KW are provincially maintained already.

I would like to see an upload happen in Windsor. The city has not been able to adequately maintain and/or expand E.C. Row since the download in the 1990s until very recently, as Windsor's finances were in the toilet for a very long time due to the 1990s, 2000s and 2008 Recessions all having a large impact on the city. The province will hopefully take E.C. Row back in the coming years so Windsor can keep investing in other areas of infrastructure now that its finances are in better shape. There is a large backlog of rail grade separations, rail crossing improvements, and road/intersection realignments that have been on the books for a long time but have not been able to be funded. There is also a huge section of early 1900s combined sewers that covers almost all of downtown, West Windsor, and Fontainebleu that makes high-density redevelopment in these areas impossible until they get replaced.

 

[anb]

When it comes down to cost of maintaining and operating highways like the Linc/RHVP and E.C. Row, I don't think any city would balk at a provincial take-over. KW's freeways are also the gateways to places like Stratford and St. Jacobs and Elmira. I could see uploading at least the Hwy 8 portions, if they're not already provincially maintained.

Since Highway 7/8/85 are all a part of the Ontario King’s Highways system, and none of them go by different names in the region (like a Gardiner or DVP or E.C Row), they were always provincially maintained from the start. This applies to other King’s Highways that also have freeway like sections such as Highway 7 in Ottawa, Highway 58 in Thorold, and Highway 6 in Guelph.

 

[Sunnyside]

MTO has no real interest in the Mid-Penn. They did a study about a decade ago identifying that they preferred to widen the QEW instead.

This was the network they identified in a 2013 study looking at capacity in the area to accommodate growth to 2041:

View attachment 684783

Widening the QEW, adding HOVs across the Burlington Skyway, and widening the 403 was seen as adequate for several decades.

Longer term they wanted to study some sort of corridor around Hamilton / Waterdown, though this corridor is extremely highly constrained by natural features which would make it difficult and more of a longer term idea.

MTO did not see any value in the Mid-Penn south of Hamilton.

The nuts and bolts transportation case may not be there per se, but its rippling down into poor, contradictory land use decisions. It is a case where, imo, the small steps of the status quo will do more damage over time than one big intervention.

Expansion below the escarpment is a bad idea. Growth above it is better, but not if it entails escarpment crossings, because of the inherent damage involved. But this is only the case as long as we solely rely on the QEW for E/W travel.

The QEW already attracts growth to the most sensitive areas (those adjacent); a new highway can simultaneously relieve pressure on these areas and the escarpment, while still allowing ample growth atop it.

Anyhow, It is no surprise the MTO isn’t interested; a land use issue isn’t their concern.

—————

An Ancaster/Waterdown corridor makes sense to me, partly because I also think the Chedoke expressway 403 is not worth the squeeze to expand. Seeing how regional traffic only passes through, I think routing this around the city would be prudent. A lot depends on the alignment, however.

 

[Sunnyside]

The main one, from what I recall, was expanding Centennial Parkway. And it was nixed due to cost and disruption to residences and businesses along the corridor. Alternatives farther east would have meant a "new" escarpment crossing that would have been prohibitive.

That was it- screw over people in the City, or the valley. We chose the latter.

I always suspected the wide ROW on Mud Street was for a Linc extension to the potential alternative alignment(s), but someone might have corrected me that Mud St’s actually just an average width. lol.

 

[ScreamingViking]

That was it- screw over people in the City, or the valley. We chose the latter.

I always suspected the wide ROW on Mud Street was for a Linc extension to the potential alternative alignment(s), but someone might have corrected me that Mud St’s actually just an average width. lol.

Mud has been a conundrum to me since the Linc was completed... why not just call it what it is, an extension to what is now "Upper" Centennial Pkwy. It may not have interchanges, but those would be easily built.

 

[catcher_of_cats]

Mud has been a conundrum to me since the Linc was completed... why not just call it what it is, an extension to what is now "Upper" Centennial Pkwy. It may not have interchanges, but those would be easily built.

Mud Street was originally going to be an extension of the LINC but those plans fell off the wheels over two decades ago and now its just a thoroughfare with islands containing dying trees. Hamilton will never have the money to alter this.

 

[Haljackey]

I admit no knowledge about the Mid peninsula corridor or where the beginning or end would be. If the Province were to take over the Linc and Red Hill, could a Provincial Mid peninsula corridor start where the Linc and RHVP meet and continue Eastbound toward Niagara or Fort Erie wherever it was visioned to end?

There's a Wikipedia article for it if interested. If you're looking for more info consider checking the references

Mid-Peninsula Highway - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It was going to end at the QEW near the Peace Bridge