[hawc]

We don't want to be Detroit or L.A. where car is king, but there has to be some balance. So many folks on here write like the car is the absolute most evil thing ever and that we should slowly remove or condense all roads to the point where the only way to get around is bike, foot or TTC. That's just not practical. There are times when cars are necessary. Think about who's inside those cars, it's mum and dads getting their kids to school or lessons, it's old folk, it's tradespeople, its delivery people. We weren't built like Europe. We were built spread out. So yeah let's take an unnecessary ramp down here and there. Let's give transit priority. Let's build more bike paths and covert car lanes to bike lanes where it makes sense. But let's please stop demonizing cars like they're some kind of alien force here to take us over. A city needs a ring highway around it which is what 427, DVP, 401, Gardiner are. It would be idiotic to not at the very leas have this one connected highway system around the city. Nobody is going to build a Spadina Expressway downtown anymore. I love cycling. I love walking around with the family, but we also need roads and cars for certain journeys. So please enough with the tear-it-all-down hyperbole. Of all the cities around the word I've been too, Toronto actually has done an incredible job of balancing the many different ways of getting around. This is not Manhattan. Nor should it ever be LA. I'm thirlled we're tearing down this section of the Gardiner, but I would never want the whole thing torn down.

 

[Northern Light]

We don't want to be Detroit or L.A. where car is king, but there has to be some balance. So many folks on here write like the car is the absolute most evil thing ever and that we should slowly remove or condense all roads to the point where the only way to get around is bike, foot or TTC. That's just not practical. There are times when cars are necessary. Think about who's inside those cars, it's mum and dads getting their kids to school or lessons, it's old folk, it's tradespeople, its delivery people. We weren't built like Europe. We were built spread out. So yeah let's take an unnecessary ramp down here and there. Let's give transit priority. Let's build more bike paths and covert car lanes to bike lanes where it makes sense. But let's please stop demonizing cars like they're some kind of alien force here to take us over. A city needs a ring highway around it which is what 427, DVP, 401, Gardiner are. It would be idiotic to not at the very leas have this one connected highway system around the city. Nobody is going to build a Spadina Expressway downtown anymore. I love cycling. I love walking around with the family, but we also need roads and cars for certain journeys. So please enough with the tear-it-all-down hyperbole. Of all the cities around the word I've been too, Toronto actually has done an incredible job of balancing the many different ways of getting around. This is not Manhattan. Nor should it ever be LA. I'm thirlled we're tearing down this section of the Gardiner, but I would never want the whole thing torn down.

As someone who drives, and who owns a car, I don't find most of the 'tear it down' stuff all that o'er the top.

To be clear, such a project could not be undertaken in isolation. That is to say, if you expect people using the Gardiner to take transit into the core, then you need to have the requisite capacity and level of service to handle that.

In terms of the Gardiner west of Yonge, we certainly are not there. In terms of the Gardiner between Cherry and Jarvis, studies suggest it was viable without creating undue traffic problems or hardships for most.

Other potential projects would vary in terms of how viable they might be, but I would certainly favour removing the Allen in its current form (it doesn't really go anywhere); but that should also be tied to Dufferin being pushed through the Downsview site, and other road grid improvements.

*****

In respect of the non-highway road system, I don't think its fair to say Toronto has struck a good balance, it may be fair to say we've done better than most other cities in North America.....but that's not a terribly high bar.
Cycling is far too dangerous on many roads, sidewalks are often narrow and unpleasant. I think there is need to see some roads narrowed in terms of vehicle lanes to create the space for safe and pleasant cycling and pedestrian facilities; and/or transit lanes on some roads.

That's not anti-car. Its about incenting people who can, to make other choices, which frankly leaves more space for the drivers who remain.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I just cycled past the demo, it's so much more open! Reinforces my opinion that the whole of the elevated Gardiner ought to have been demolished!

Me too, I just came back from a cycle to see the ruins. Looking at the traffic I am so glad to live and work downtown. I can’t imagine it’s fun sitting in a car for two hours on the Gardiner and DVP everyday. It’s only going to get worse once Covid is gone and more Folks return to WFO.

 

[achender]

From today.
Looking east from Lake Shore and Don Roadway.

Looking west.

 

[kotsy]

I consider spotting @kotsy's watermarks to be one of the great UT past times.

Our own version of Where's Waldo!

I find he's moderately obvious with it in 1/2 his pics.............about 1/3 you need to be paying attention............but there's always one or two in a series where he's really hidden it well.....and you can spend more time trying to find it than solving the NYT Sunday crossword!

For a number of years I've mainly only posted photos 1 at a time online, so adding my tag is a relatively quick process. But every now and again there are times where I want to post a batch and I consider not doing them because the time to tag a group of photos can add a significant amount of time to my editing process. It's comments like yours that make me stay true to my roots and follow through

 

[nfitz]

There are times when cars are necessary. Think about who's inside those cars, it's mum and dads getting their kids to school or lessons, it's old folk, it's tradespeople, its delivery people. We weren't built like Europe. We were built spread out.

It's not like they are wholesale removing expressways. The entire reason the east stub of the Gardiner existed, was to get cars on the never-built expressway to Scarborough. There's little functional change with the ramps to Lake Shore west of the Don Roadway, rather than at Logan. What, maybe 1 or 2 more lights, on a 6-lane roadway? Construction will be a bitch, sure.

Though to be honest, in the Coxwell area, there seems to be no more traffic - if anything there is less. Looking at the traffic on Google, it looks like Eastern and Dundas are picking up a bit more traffic. Lake Shore itself looks better than it used to - I don't think it's adding many minutes westbound. To be honest, Lake Shore/Gardiner West looks far worse. Even when I used to commute it westbound in AM peak, it was seldom Lake Shore East that caused my huge delays compared to downtown to the 427.

Maybe they needed to bulldoze more east-west streets through the west side, like they did with Dundas - and to a less extent joining up Eastern to Kingston.

If we could cut down on car use, it would make it easier for those that have to drive to drive. Though why people downtown would be regularly driving kids to school or lessons I don't know. It happens occasionally, but many pick schools and extracurriculars based on location.

Old folk? From what I've seen, many shouldn't be driving!

 

[EddyMCD]

I'm a little behind on this plan. Once everything is done and re-built, will the Gardiner and DVP still be connected? Someone posted an an image of the plan that looked that way, but I'm not sure if I'm interpreting it right.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I'm a little behind on this plan. Once everything is done and re-built, will the Gardiner and DVP still be connected? Someone posted an an image of the plan that looked that way, but I'm not sure if I'm interpreting it right.

Yes it will - the link will be realigned.

AoD

 

[fanoftoronto]

I'm a little behind on this plan. Once everything is done and re-built, will the Gardiner and DVP still be connected? Someone posted an an image of the plan that looked that way, but I'm not sure if I'm interpreting it right.

Yes, the plan is to keep the Gardiner and DVP still connected. The current ramps will be reconfigured to run North of the current location, while Lake Shore will also be re-aligned to improve development opportunities along Lake Shore.

 

[Dinamo5]

Yes, the plan is to keep the Gardiner and DVP still connected. The current ramps will be reconfigured to run North of the current location, while Lake Shore will also be re-aligned to improve development opportunities along Lake Shore.
View attachment 348913

That re-design looks amazing, finally Toronto is on the path to having a world class waterfront for all. Just would hate to be on that end when they take that section down to reconnect to the DVP that could take some serious closures for sure.

 

[Amare]

That re-design looks amazing, finally Toronto is on the path to having a world class waterfront for all.

I cant tell if this is sarcasm or if you're being for real.

 

[DirectionNorth]

I cant tell if this is sarcasm or if you're being for real.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm. What are you trying to say? That we should have parks? Sure, but what would we do with it in the winter? It's better than the s***show we have now.

 

[Amare]

I can't tell if this is sarcasm. What are you trying to say? That we should have parks? Sure, but what would we do with it in the winter? It's better than the s***show we have now.

I'm not saying that redesign isnt a good thing, because it is.

What i'm saying is that having some typical Toronto standard condos lined up along a boulevard doesnt make it anything out of the ordinary of special. The waterfront promenade/trail, green space to west of the Don, and Parliament slip are pretty much the only unique things we're getting out of this section of the waterfront. Not insignificant, but it's nothing majestic either.

 

[EddyMCD]

Is there a boardwalk or some type of public space along the water or is it all private lands/condos?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I'm not saying that redesign isnt a good thing, because it is.

What i'm saying is that having some typical Toronto standard condos lined up along a boulevard doesnt make it anything out of the ordinary of special. The waterfront promenade/trail, green space to west of the Don, and Parliament slip are pretty much the only unique things we're getting out of this section of the waterfront. Not insignificant, but it's nothing majestic either.

The most "majestic" thing isn't this realignment - but the completely new river valley/Villiers Island.

AoD