[evandyk]

I actually thought about the wording to use to not come across as victim blaming. I was stating from observation, nor I am disagreeing with better road designs, and I am not faulting the pedestrian involved. Are we not even allowed to comment on observation?

I was thinking of this same thing when I made my original comment about keeping your watch up as a pedestrian. Certainly we should design infrastructure so that inattention and mistakes don't get a pedestrian run over by a truck. But some incidents can be avoided, and keeping your watch up maximizes those chances.

 

[reaperexpress]

I was thinking of this same thing when I made my original comment about keeping your watch up as a pedestrian. Certainly we should design infrastructure so that inattention and mistakes don't get a pedestrian run over by a truck. But some incidents can be avoided, and keeping your watch up maximizes those chances.

I think the key is to distinguish between advice between inviduals and advice to/from authorities. As an individual it is of course a good idea to be alert to maximize your chances of avoiding a serious incident given that our transportation system is not as safe as it should be. But as a road authority, telling people to pay more attention is pretty much the least effective possible use of resources if your goal is to improve safety.

 

[crs1026]

I think the key is to distinguish between advice between inviduals and advice to/from authorities. As an individual it is of course a good idea to be alert to maximize your chances of avoiding a serious incident given that our transportation system is not as safe as it should be. But as a road authority, telling people to pay more attention is pretty much the least effective possible use of resources if your goal is to improve safety.

It’s important that our authorities also are seen to preach common sense and good judgement - and the responsibility of all parties to do their part for road safety.
The tricky part is how to do so without sounding one sided or indifferent - as has become a concern in some past events.

- Paul

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

It could be argued that, since the truck was well into the bounds of the intersection before the pedestrian was, who should yield to whom?

The truck had certainly had entered the intersection - but I don't see any signals (though perhaps it's hard to see on the video).

From the pedestrians perspective, the truck was only moving forward, and they likely didn't expect them to actually turn. And then they made the mistake of not realizing that as the truck turned, it would get closer to him. (I certainly play similar games with a streetcar that is turning right on red as it turns green, and ignoring the pedestrians - but with a streetcar, especially the new ones, they don't deviate from where you'd expect!

The driver should have stopped when they realized the light had turned for the pedestrians. And when the truck didn't stop, the pedestrian should know better than not giving the truck more space - for their own sake!

The solutions is banning right-on-red, like most very large cities do (Montreal, New York, London, Paris, Tokyo, Amsterdam, ...)

 

[Admiral Beez]

Parkside Drive speed camera cut down for fifth time: ‘It’s just Groundhog Day’

The speed camera, Toronto’s busiest, has been the frequent target of vandals in recent months.

www.thestar.com

 

[TwinHuey]

Thanks to all of you for the informative discussions. I'm new to this thread (I had to look up "LPI").

Safe Systems Approach to Urban Planning (thank's @reaperexpress) reminded me of Safety Management Systems (SMS) from my aviation background . A cornerstone of SMS is the non punitive reporting of all near miss incidents. Accordingly, and thanks to a prompt from @Northern Light, I did send an email with the dash cam video to management at Toronto Transportation Services. I haven't heard back, not that I expect to, but I'll post on this thread if I do.

I went back to that intersection today with the drone to see if I could capture the traffic signal sequence.

I wasn't sure the signals would be visible from the drone so I also shot a clip with my phone from where the pedestrian was waiting to cross.

The drone is facing west.

 

[Northern Light]

Thanks to all of you for the informative discussions. I'm new to this thread (I had to look up "PLI").

Safe Systems Approach to Urban Planning (thank's @reaperexpress) reminded me of Safety Management Systems (SMS) from my aviation background . A cornerstone of SMS is the non punitive reporting of all near miss incidents. Accordingly, and thanks to a prompt from @Northern Light, I did send an email with the dash cam video to management at Toronto Transportation Services. I haven't heard back, not that I expect to, but I'll post on this thread if I do.

I went back to that intersection today with the drone to see if I could capture the traffic signal sequence.

I wasn't sure the signals would be visible from the drone so I also shot a clip with my phone from where the pedestrian was waiting to cross.

The drone is facing west.

Good stuff.

So there IS a PLI in place; what there is not, is a right-turn-on-red restriction.

 

[evandyk]

Not a single one of those cars/trucks turning right actually stopped at the red light.

 

[christiesplits]

Parkside Drive speed camera chopped down for the FIFTH time.

Parkside Drive speed camera cut down for fifth time: ‘It’s just Groundhog Day’

The speed camera, Toronto’s busiest, has been the frequent target of vandals in recent months.

www.thestar.com

 

[lenaitch]

The truck had certainly had entered the intersection - but I don't see any signals (though perhaps it's hard to see on the video).

From the pedestrians perspective, the truck was only moving forward, and they likely didn't expect them to actually turn. And then they made the mistake of not realizing that as the truck turned, it would get closer to him. (I certainly play similar games with a streetcar that is turning right on red as it turns green, and ignoring the pedestrians - but with a streetcar, especially the new ones, they don't deviate from where you'd expect!

The driver should have stopped when they realized the light had turned for the pedestrians. And when the truck didn't stop, the pedestrian should know better than not giving the truck more space - for their own sake!

The solutions is banning right-on-red, like most very large cities do (Montreal, New York, London, Paris, Tokyo, Amsterdam, ...)

I could see a turn signal when in full screen, although I could not tell if there were side repeaters on the trailer.

 

[lenaitch]

Parkside Drive speed camera chopped down for the FIFTH time.

Parkside Drive speed camera cut down for fifth time: ‘It’s just Groundhog Day’

The speed camera, Toronto’s busiest, has been the frequent target of vandals in recent months.

www.thestar.com

Maybe they need to put a camera on the camera.

 

[lenaitch]

For a collision to occur due to user error, typically at least two road users need to be inattentive. First the one user needs to make an error, AND the other user needs to fail to identify/accommodate the error. If either user were attentive the collision could be avoided.

A reasonable statement at urban speeds; although if somebody blows a stop sign in front of you, physics might work against you even at residential speeds. At highway speeds, events can often happen faster than human perception and reaction times.

 

[11th]

Which is exactly what they do at nearly all signals in the Netherlands;

The city needs proper multi-stage crossing implementation for suburban intersections. It's safe and efficient for everyone.

 

[Northern Light]

Maybe they need to put a camera on the camera.

I was honestly thinking the same thing.......

Err, probably 2, one from each direction.

****

Maybe this is just me........... but I also wonder why the City doesn't mount the damned thing on the nearby concrete pole that has the street light and the power lines attached. I imagine, err hope, that the idiot doing this might be more cautious cutting down the latter.

 

[lenaitch]

I was honestly thinking the same thing.......

Err, probably 2, one from each direction.

****

Maybe this is just me........... but I also wonder why the City doesn't mount the damned thing on the nearby concrete pole that has the street light and the power lines attached. I imagine, err hope, that the idiot doing this might be more cautious cutting down the latter.

I've had that thought about all ground-mounted cameras. I think either Barrie or Innisfil has also had a repeated problem as well.