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I'll be the first to agree things aren't perfect as they are...........

But where I'm inclined to draw a different line is to say, if the road is being reconstructed.......why should a sidewalk not be included?

We can certainly discuss places we should do 'something' where we are not.....

But is it reasonable to do 'nothing' because the locals would prefer that?

My instinct is that the answer should be 'no' to the above. I'm willing to entertain decorative, or higher-quality materials............but maybe, the locals should be prepared to accept a premium if they want their walkways made of granite?

Unfortunately I can't offer a winning argument based on logic and fact, because the vision is sound.....but I will fall back on the premise that city government decisions are made only in part through logic and careful thought.

My observation is that this issue may affect residents (rightly or wrongly) more deeply than may be obvious to safety advocates - and where city staff perceive a mandate to proceed "as of right", they may be making things worse.

When I was researching one such neighbourhood objection, I did a walking tour where I collected photos where parents had erected basketball hoops at the ends of driveways, facing the street. If there had been only one or two of these, I might have simply concluded that parenthood has no skill requirements. But in fact there was dozens of them.... to the point where there was clearly a consensus in the neighbourhood that their streets were safe enough for their children to play on. That kind of ratepayer consensus is something our citybuilding has to live with, and respond to constructively.

I also had first hand involvement in a project where a different Councillor, who was unabashedly pro-Vision Zero, told angry residents that on principle, they would not support a motion to exclude, and the sidewalks would go in. But what the Councillor did do was force staff into a consultative process with the residents to find a most acceptable design. The result was a reasonable compromise, and the sidewalks went in....but the staff effort clearly exceeded the norm for such projects, and the end design was much reworked from the original staff proposal. So while the effort likely grated to busy and underfunded city managers, maybe that's what it takes.

Lastly, I experienced a sidewalk-exempted road reconstruction that had one city department positioned against another, over removal of trees....In that case, when the motion went to Council, the staff member presenting admitted that the project was "low priority". In that case, staff were consistently obtuse or unavailable to residents, both during the design and during execution. Residents were only able to find out the design through their Councillor.... (creating an opportunity for the Councillor to "save the day") and end execution was so bad that some residents were wondering aloud if the City was retaliating for their exemption campaign (There may have been aggravating factors.....mumbleSansconmumble.....)

So my point would be, if this program is as compelling as claimed, the City isn't acting like it, and maybe overplays its hand where resistance does emerge.

And actually, the data isn't showing local roads as the places where pedestrians are being harmed most often .... so maybe letting sleeping dogs lie by not pushing the really backwater cases is acceptable to risk and the wiser option, for now anyways.

- Paul
 
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The standard for accessibility and sidewalks in generally thus at this point, is 2.1M wide.

I believe that's considered a legal standard at this point, its certainly the design requirement for the City.

I think Toronto's design standards exceed the minimum legal standard in Ontario, which is found at section 80.23 of the Integrated Accessibility Standards Regulation.

 
Here's the locations of all the killed/serious injuries to pedestrian or cyclists in the past five years.

1746713634514.png


And zooming into the downtown cluster:

1746713697418.png


Two-thirds of these happened on major arterial roads, a further one-sixth occurred on minor arterials. Only 6% happened on local streets.
 

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15km/h. No sidewalk means its a woonerf.


What is a "woonerf"?

A "woonerf" is a Dutch term, roughly translating to "living street," referring to a residential street designed to prioritize pedestrians and cyclists over vehicles. These streets feature shared spaces, traffic calming measures, and lower speed limits, creating a more people-friendly environment

The speed limit in a woonerf is 15 km/h (originally referred to as walking pace). Speed-reducing facilities must be used to enforce this speed; this means that a sober layout is not allowed.


See https://urbantoronto.ca/news/2022/06/explainer-woonerf.48245
 
I think many people don't understand the term and apply it for any pedestrianised shared street.
 
I think I finally have an answer for @lenaitch:
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "over-litigious". [...]
I meant the over-abundance of sign clutter.

York Region's implementation of speed cameras really seems disingenuous... they like to put speed cameras where it varies by 10km/h depending on the time of day/month.

Why do we need this excessive signage...
1902BDE7-FF61-42A8-A34E-C6F854C7E20E.jpeg

227FA252-FCC5-4C27-8358-16666C32E9D1.jpeg

(Instant Streetview)

Instead of having these:
Highland-ave-speed-limit-sign-1100x825.jpg

Source

Also referring to our reluctance to accept the RED left turn arrow, instead requiring extra signage for a red ball. God forbid Ontarians ever go drive in the States...

And our reluctance to accept proper transit transit signals, unlike Quebec. Wonder how many accidents those K-W bar signals have actually caused recently?
 
I think I finally have an answer for @lenaitch:

I meant the over-abundance of sign clutter.

York Region's implementation of speed cameras really seems disingenuous... they like to put speed cameras where it varies by 10km/h depending on the time of day/month.

Why do we need this excessive signage...
View attachment 651923
View attachment 651924
(Instant Streetview)

Instead of having these:
Highland-ave-speed-limit-sign-1100x825.jpg

Source

Also referring to our reluctance to accept the RED left turn arrow, instead requiring extra signage for a red ball. God forbid Ontarians ever go drive in the States...

And our reluctance to accept proper transit transit signals, unlike Quebec. Wonder how many accidents those K-W bar signals have actually caused recently?

We need to change the law to have arrows on traffic signs be able to show both permissive direction but also if that direction has priority. Which we don't now. On King Street for example we can't have a green arrow showing only right turns are permitted, because that would imply that the right turns also have priority over pedestrians, which is not what we want. I think priority, for example for advanced right or left turn green signal should be indicated by a flashing arrow. But that doesn't exist I believe in the HTA.
 
[...] I think priority, for example for advanced right or left turn green signal should be indicated by a flashing arrow. But that doesn't exist I believe in the HTA.
K-W and Durham would beg to differ. I love those flashing left turn arrows... It says GO-GO-GO!!

K-W's transit signals aren't in the HTA either.
 
K-W and Durham would beg to differ. I love those flashing left turn arrows... It says GO-GO-GO!!
Interesting, had no idea. So it's essentially the same meaning as a solid green arrow in Toronto?

I more meant I think it's not allowed to use an arrow to indicate a direction where travel is allowed but pedestrians have priority. Does that exists anywhere in Ontario?

Like a green arrow pointing left flashing or not both mean that there be no pedestrians in the way when turning, correct?
 
^ @reaperexpress has said - only in Quebec.

Ps. That's why it took so long for me to understand their traffic signals. I'll mention him again, watch: Jackson Bourret's videos.
Thanks for the YouTube Channel recommendation!

Didn't realize these existed in Toronto:


Should be the standard!

Edit: even better if right turns on red would be banned not just on a red light, but also unless explicitly allowed either with a green ball or green right turn arrow.
 
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I think I finally have an answer for @lenaitch:

I meant the over-abundance of sign clutter.

York Region's implementation of speed cameras really seems disingenuous... they like to put speed cameras where it varies by 10km/h depending on the time of day/month.

Why do we need this excessive signage...
View attachment 651923
View attachment 651924
(Instant Streetview)

Instead of having these:
Highland-ave-speed-limit-sign-1100x825.jpg

Source

Also referring to our reluctance to accept the RED left turn arrow, instead requiring extra signage for a red ball. God forbid Ontarians ever go drive in the States...

And our reluctance to accept proper transit transit signals, unlike Quebec. Wonder how many accidents those K-W bar signals have actually caused recently?

On no planet does this road design and speed limit belong together. 4 lane highway road design with 30kph speed limit. Insanity.

1747431160763.png
 
Interesting, had no idea. So it's essentially the same meaning as a solid green arrow in Toronto?

I more meant I think it's not allowed to use an arrow to indicate a direction where travel is allowed but pedestrians have priority. Does that exists anywhere in Ontario?

Like a green arrow pointing left flashing or not both mean that there be no pedestrians in the way when turning, correct?
Would flashing amber work? We have these are rural crossings to indicate that you can proceed with caution.
 
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