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Bayer
Senior Member
As a supplier of the Ontario government, I can confirm that actual red tape, at least in our case, has been getting steadily worse over the past 35 years, including under Ford. It looks like Supply Ontario isn't talking to the Ministry of Red Tape Reduction...
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Northern Light
Superstar
True!
***
Of course, there are lots of instances of red tape so to speak, well, some of which is nominally regulatory........but is eyerolling to almost anyone; but rarely do such things get rolled back.
Lets take a look at what Ontario did a few years ago to hairstyling:
What? LOL These rules apply by the way if you just want to be a 'barber'......doing straight-forward men's haircuts.
The hairstyling exam requires you to know how to know:
I have to note that I've spoken to the person who cuts my hair and is the long time manager where she works.
She has said that this is nothing but a nuisance and a barrier to employment as it requires every single person they hire to be expert at all of the above, even if they don't want to do most of the above
and the business doesn't need them to.
She noted that she came to Canada as an immigrant, decades ago, she didn't have formal certification and didn't need it, she was 'grandfathered' when these rules came in........
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We also have 'red tape' for Social Assistance recipients.
The government compels them:
a) To report their net wealth (anything above a meager amount disqualifies you from getting benefits)
b) To report their income, monthly, and if it exceeds $200, the government begins clawing back benefits at .50c for each dollar earned. Making sure work does not pay.
c) To spend the paltry $733 you get proportionately on 'shelter' and 'other', as the government sees fit, you cannot reapportion according to your needs.
*****
Tieing these two items together.............the hairstylist manager I noted, spoke of hiring someone off social assistance for a one day per week tryout. That person did a good job and was well liked, they offered said person
an additional day each week and were told no, because it would trigger their benefits being reduced by more than 1/2 and their rent-geared-to-income apartment going up.
The establishment ultimately had to terminate the new hire, because they couldn't get more than one day a week from them.
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Moral, no need to gut environmental or worker safety regulations.
Instead, invest in removing needless barriers to employment, and getting more people working; and let people who are acutely poor off of doing endless paperwork and being micro managed over a pittance.
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evandyk
Senior Member
It seems like there is so much low hanging fruit in regulatory reform that somebody should be able to make a big difference without blowing up anything important or really making any major changes. But even the obvious examples, like the social assistance ones NL mentions, get totally politicized when someone from the "wrong team" tries to do something about it. (Though I should say, there are quite a few people who think the three things mentioned are "features" of the system, rather than "bugs". On the other hand, I don't think anyone cares if their barber is licensed.)
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Some internal contradictions from disparate policies are inevitable, but I think they need to think about what the ultimate goal of these policies in the first place and not lose sight of it. Right now you have these unintended consequences/perverse incentives that basically produce an effect that is direct contradiction of the desired goal.
AoD
lenaitch
Senior Member
Regulatory control (aka 'red tape') and bureaucracy are often two different beasts.
Regulations, in terms of provincial law, form the fine details of how to undertake an activity that is legal but, as a matter of public policy, necessary to put bounds around. Want to fish? Here are the rules. Want sell lottery tickets? Here are the rules. Some are behind the curtain - generally between a person or business and a government body. Some are more public-facing. There are a couple of problems with them. Because most are fairly specific, they can tend to pile on to other regulations. Ministries seldom do a comprehensive review of the regulations under their charge to attempt to streamline them. Another problem is governments loved to have regulations, but are less keen on actually regulating; often not until something becomes public or it gets boxed into a corner. Enforcing regulations cost money. This not always a bad thing since the primary goal is to obtain voluntary compliance with what is otherwise a permitted activity, but often that guidance, the bureaucracy that helps navigate you towards being compliant, if not always there, risk averse and inconsistent.
Internal bureaucracy usually exists apart from Regulations. Multiple and often confusing layers or processes in the machinery of government are often a result of a wide-based solution imposed on narrow, specific activities. Government bureaucracies are astonishingly risk averse, loathe to discipline individuals and huge fans of multiple stages of accountability.
Regulations, in terms of provincial law, form the fine details of how to undertake an activity that is legal but, as a matter of public policy, necessary to put bounds around. Want to fish? Here are the rules. Want sell lottery tickets? Here are the rules. Some are behind the curtain - generally between a person or business and a government body. Some are more public-facing. There are a couple of problems with them. Because most are fairly specific, they can tend to pile on to other regulations. Ministries seldom do a comprehensive review of the regulations under their charge to attempt to streamline them. Another problem is governments loved to have regulations, but are less keen on actually regulating; often not until something becomes public or it gets boxed into a corner. Enforcing regulations cost money. This not always a bad thing since the primary goal is to obtain voluntary compliance with what is otherwise a permitted activity, but often that guidance, the bureaucracy that helps navigate you towards being compliant, if not always there, risk averse and inconsistent.
Internal bureaucracy usually exists apart from Regulations. Multiple and often confusing layers or processes in the machinery of government are often a result of a wide-based solution imposed on narrow, specific activities. Government bureaucracies are astonishingly risk averse, loathe to discipline individuals and huge fans of multiple stages of accountability.
Northern Light
Superstar
Ford out with a presser today on Ontario delivering on Free Trade within Canada; removing (potentially) all trade barriers. *
* There is a requirement in some cases that other provinces agree to reciprocal treatment.
news.ontario.ca
From the above:
* There is a requirement in some cases that other provinces agree to reciprocal treatment.
Ontario Newsroom
news.ontario.ca
From the above:
Meanwhile, the New York Times has an article about Therme and Ontario Place at: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/16/world/canada/therme-spa-ontario-canada.html (paywalled)
Headline:
From the article:
Headline:
A Wellness Company With False Claims, Global Aims and a Toronto Island
A Times investigation shows Therme, a European firm, exaggerated its track record in securing a deal with Ontario, and government auditors found that the process had been unfair and opaque.From the article:
Lots of detail about Therme's history in the article. Ford's office declined to comment.
Coolibop
Active Member
As TVOs JMM points out, removing the exceptions won't change much immediately, but allow items to be challenged through the Canadian Free Trade Acts dispute resolution process. That is, using alcohol as an example, I no longer have to buy wine from BC from the LCBO...however, alcohol distribution (in Ontario) is still controlled by the LCBO and so I can't...yet.Ford out with a presser today on Ontario delivering on Free Trade within Canada; removing (potentially) all trade barriers. *
* There is a requirement in some cases that other provinces agree to reciprocal treatment.
Ontario Newsroom
From the above:
View attachment 644591
View attachment 644592
View attachment 644593
From his article:
lenaitch
Senior Member
The more permanent goal should to simply accept the regulatory standards of the other provinces. Other provinces aren't third world countries. Wee allow people from other provinces to drive in Ontario and the sky hasn't fallen.
Northern Light
Superstar
Ontario will announce 750M for Universities and Colleges this morning:
www.thestar.com
The money will be targeted STEM funding.
Its not yet clear to me over what period this will flow, as this will apparently fund 20,500 new pupil places.
It depends on what costs you assign to calculate that out (the universities would still collect tuition).......but at $12,500 per student you would get 250M, which makes me inclined to see this as a 3-year envelope.
I think this is money well spent; but on the post-secondary file, I'm still looking for new funds for grad students, new funds for endowment matching and research.
Ford government boosts STEM education funding by $750 million
Colleges and universities will receive a $750 million boost from the Ontario government for 20,500 spaces in science and engineering programs each year, helping fill — but not close —
www.thestar.com
The money will be targeted STEM funding.
Its not yet clear to me over what period this will flow, as this will apparently fund 20,500 new pupil places.
It depends on what costs you assign to calculate that out (the universities would still collect tuition).......but at $12,500 per student you would get 250M, which makes me inclined to see this as a 3-year envelope.
I think this is money well spent; but on the post-secondary file, I'm still looking for new funds for grad students, new funds for endowment matching and research.
Bojaxs
Senior Member
This was interesting. Jamil Jivani ripping into Doug Ford during a post-election interview with the CBC. Jimal Jivani is the guy with close ties to J.D. Vance.
Adjei
Senior Member
He has a lot of mouth. Why doesn’t he go ask his leader why he couldn’t win his seat in his own riding instead of worrying about Ford.
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AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Well, not that I have a particular love for the latter, but he should ask himself who won a majority and who snatched defeat from victory.
AoD