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Sometimes these charts reveal surprising things.

We know why Line 2 takes 20 minutes, but why does the fully automated double tracked Canada Line take 17 minutes between Marine drive and waterfront. That section is entirely underground.
The Canada line has a lot of curves with remarkably slow limits. It's a similar situation to the Confederation line but not nearly as severe so it never grabbed headlines
Do you have the original travel time between Blair and Parliament @reaperexpress before they did all those slow zones? It should be something like 16 minutes I'd think
I don't but we could probably find it on the Wayback Machine
 
On a related note, will they be able to improve the frequency on Line 1? When I lived in Ottawa, I feel like I remember someone before the line opened promising 3.5 to 4 minute headways in rush hour, but I see 5 minute headways on the latest schedules (not that 5 minutes is bad, but I imagine every minute counts on a cold winter day if you want to encourage ridership).
 
Are the dwell times at stations also an issue in Ottawa? I've seen complaints about that online, but has anyone quantified the differences? I recall very snappy stops in Toronto even where there are many more passengers than in Ottawa. OC Transpo just seems to be run by folk who don't think it matters how fast you get where you're going.
This is my experience as well. Combine long dwell times with mandatory open doors through the train and you end up with a very chilly car for half the year! It seems obvious that the Ottawa system is run by people that don't use it, or at least was designed by those people.
 
No actually the Citadis acceleration is remarkably quick. The issue is all the 25 km/h slow zones through curves east of downtown. Hopefully the extensions won't be subject to the same speed restrictions and will actually post some decent times.
What's Tunney to Rideau look like. I'm surprised the turns would be so much more significant than a couple of extra stops.
 
What's Tunney to Rideau look like.
Tunneys to Pimisi is very quick but there are more speed restrictions between Pimisi and Lyon, and between Parliament and Rideau.
I'm surprised the turns would be so much more significant than a couple of extra stops.
A huge portion of the line between Parliament and Blair is covered by 25 km/h limits. I'm surprised it even manages to average 26 given how little time it can actually spend above 25.
 
Actually the dwell times are the main cause for the slow times on. Line 2 on that chart @reaperexpress did.

Screenshot-20250317-073054.png


Line 2 track speeds are between 60-70 km/h, with speed buffers around the stations, but this section is also the part with the most single track. And the trains actually move pretty much at those max.speeds. But the dwell times are very long to ensure the trains can pass each other, e.g. trains at Carleton or Corso Italia can't leave until the other train arrives. This causes dwell times in the 90+ second range, far longer than the TTC, which I swear sometimes closes the doors almost immediately after opening them.
I'd describe the long dwell times on Line 2 as a "symptom" rather than a cause. The root cause is really the schedule padding for the single track operations like you describe here.

When people talk about dwell time being a "cause" I think that would be stuff like the inefficient door layouts on Line 1.
 
This is my experience as well. Combine long dwell times with mandatory open doors through the train and you end up with a very chilly car for half the year! It seems obvious that the Ottawa system is run by people that don't use it, or at least was designed by those people.
On line 2 at least, they mostly use push button opening. At the very beginning they opened all doors, but they've moved away from that.
 
I'd describe the long dwell times on Line 2 as a "symptom" rather than a cause. The root cause is really the schedule padding for the single track operations like you describe here.

When people talk about dwell time being a "cause" I think that would be stuff like the inefficient door layouts on Line 1.
This is correct. This is more about coordinating trains through sidings and reaching the next station at the correct time. This is especially bad at South Keys where both Line 2 and 4 trains share the same track. This produces delays at Uplands Station and wait times at South Keys for Line 4 of 6 minutes inbound and 9 minutes, much worse than originally promised.

As a local South Ottawa resident, the bigger problem is the poor coordination between Line 2 and local buses. I have spoke about this publicly and never was I given a reasonable answer. 12 minute trains cannot reliably connect with 30 minute buses. This is a real problem and it is frustrating when trains run so slowly between Carleton and Greenboro. The last time I used Line 2, the train creeped into Greenboro just as my local bus was departing. How do we build ridership with this sort of unreliable connections? Nobody who plans the network seems to care.
 
The Canada line has a lot of curves with remarkably slow limits. It's a similar situation to the Confederation line but not nearly as severe so it never grabbed headlines
It's almost dead straight from Marine Drive to Waterfront other than the curve from Davie to Granville and the swerve around Queen Elizabeth Park. The one I really notice, and don't understand, is the speed from Bridgeport to Marine Drive. It seems unnecessarily slow - perhaps it doesn't like switches - but I don't know what would slow it as it approaches Marine Drive.

I checked the Canada Line ... I get 9.25 km ... so that brings it up a bit. If you do Yaletown to Marine Drive, and avoid downtown, the curve, and the terminus (where it also seems to crawl - or is that the Expo line ...), you get almost 35 km/hr. Ditto for Yaletown to Bridgeport.

I really don't go north of Yaletown very often - perhaps the piece from there to Waterfront simply is the slow piece?

If the Eglinton subway ever opens, it would be interesting to compare the 9.2 km and 11 stations from Mount Dennis to Leaside stations.
 
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It's almost dead straight from Marine Drive to Waterfront other than the curve from Davie to Granville and the swerve around Queen Elizabeth Park. The one I really notice, and don't understand, is the speed from Bridgeport to Marine Drive. It seems unnecessarily slow - perhaps it doesn't like switches - but I don't know what would slow it as it approaches Marine Drive.

I checked the Canada Line ... I get 9.25 km ... so that brings it up a bit. If you do Yaletown to Marine Drive, and avoid downtown, the curve, and the terminus (where it also seems to crawl - or is that the Expo line ...), you get almost 35 km/hr. Ditto for Yaletown to Bridgeport.

I really don't go north of Yaletown very often - perhaps the piece from there to Waterfront simply is the slow piece?

If the Eglinton subway ever opens, it would be interesting to compare the 9.2 km and 11 stations from Mount Dennis to Leaside stations.
Every line is faster if you cherry pick the parts without speed restrictions.

My methodology was to pick a city centre station and then go up the line to the station closest to the 8.5 km mark.
 
On a related note, will they be able to improve the frequency on Line 1? When I lived in Ottawa, I feel like I remember someone before the line opened promising 3.5 to 4 minute headways in rush hour, but I see 5 minute headways on the latest schedules (not that 5 minutes is bad, but I imagine every minute counts on a cold winter day if you want to encourage ridership).
It's a budget thing unfortunately. And while the Line 2 stations were designed with fully enclosed shelters due to the 12 minute frequency, Line 1 was not as you weren't supposed to be waiting there for more than a few minutes.

All we can hope is the budget hole gets closed
 
It's still to be determined. The most recent option I heard floated was full interlining during rush hour, but in off peak they'd run line 3 as a shuttle between Lincoln Fields and Moodie. That's part of the reason Lincoln Fields is designed as a 3 track station, with a cross platform transfer from Line 3 East to Line 1 East, similar to South Keys. But they may change their mind

The map below shows the general track configuration. It's a similar setup to the Expo/Millienium line transfer at Lougheed Town Centre in Vancouver


How Lougheed works

NGL that sounds pretty bad. This means someone travelling from Kanata to central Ottawa will have to transfer twice when they previously had a one seat bus ride on the old transitway system. And they could potentially have to wait 10 minutes for each transfer too.

This is correct. This is more about coordinating trains through sidings and reaching the next station at the correct time. This is especially bad at South Keys where both Line 2 and 4 trains share the same track. This produces delays at Uplands Station and wait times at South Keys for Line 4 of 6 minutes inbound and 9 minutes, much worse than originally promised.

As a local South Ottawa resident, the bigger problem is the poor coordination between Line 2 and local buses. I have spoke about this publicly and never was I given a reasonable answer. 12 minute trains cannot reliably connect with 30 minute buses. This is a real problem and it is frustrating when trains run so slowly between Carleton and Greenboro. The last time I used Line 2, the train creeped into Greenboro just as my local bus was departing. How do we build ridership with this sort of unreliable connections? Nobody who plans the network seems to care.
Remember a big goal of the LRT was to reduce bus congestion in downtown Ottawa, and OC Transpo originally wanted to implement what was basically the TTC model where instead of running a lot of buses into the city centre you use these buses to feed trains instead. But this only works for the TTC because of high subway frequencies which OC Transpo and the City of Ottawa seem to be unwilling to fund.
 
NGL that sounds pretty bad. This means someone travelling from Kanata to central Ottawa will have to transfer twice when they previously had a one seat bus ride on the old transitway system. And they could potentially have to wait 10 minutes for each transfer too
It all depends on service frequencies. I'm hoping 6 off-peak in the core, which would make branches 12, which is workable. There's still over a year until it opens in the best case,

Before the service cuts, the line 3 shuttle was only a late night thing.

Also, originally Line 2 was an "addition to" service. Now they are going force connections, again due to service cuts, and as @lrt's friend mentioned the holy schedule frequency of 30 minutes that's written in stone tablets makes for a poorly timed connection.

While we've been talking trains here, by far the biggest issue with OC Transpo is the buses. They are extremely unreliable, poorly scheduled and not frequent enough on main routes. 15 minutes is a piss poor "mainline" frequency
 

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