Kyle Campbell
Senior Member
That was the point. Lines 2 and 4 are legal railways for their entire length, and follow federal rules.
Yes any subway, or even the confed line exceeds that, but they aren't legally railways
|
|
|
- Thread starter Reecemartin
- Start date
Yes any subway, or even the confed line exceeds that, but they aren't legally railways
Kyle Campbell
Senior Member
It's actually 80m now. The trains are twice as long after the expansion. And it's legally a railroad at all times, and it crosses an active freight line at a fork
Kyle Campbell
Senior Member
There's 20 via departures per day, and 42 Exo arrivals/departures per day
Central Station Complex - Montreal Central Station
garecentrale.ca
Mont-Saint-Hilaire line - Wikipedia
Vaudreuil–Hudson line - Wikipedia
Anyway it was just a fun "technically true" fact, even though in reality South Keys isn't that special if you look at Line 2/4 as public transit
nfitz
Superstar
It's hard to take it too seriously given it should never have been a transfer point in the first place. It's all very sad really.
I'll take the "it's a main-line train track during the day" when I see a freight or VIA train on it between trams.
Kyle Campbell
Senior Member
It's not like ION usage where there's time separation.
The Stadler FLIRTs and Alstom Lints are euro spec regional mainline trains, not trams like the Citadis on Line 1.
And there are actual interactions with freight a couple times a week at Walkley diamond, it holds the line up for a couple minutes when the freight train crosses. There used to be a lot of interactions with VIa trains, but now there's a flyover.
And very occasionally, there's a daytime freight run to the NRC facility on Lester along the Line 2 track
There's other things around rules, like Line 2 trains have to ring bells entering and leaving stations because they are under Transport Canada regs
ownthesky
Active Member
I know this is ancient history now, but what were the competitors for the Alstom Citadis during the original procurement process? I saw a line in the old documents about the city reviewing a 70% low floor option, but I was curious what model they were referring to.
Kyle Campbell
Senior Member
If memory serves, there was CAF and Kinki-Shariyo as competitors. The vehicles were part of the consortium package, so you had to pick the whole thing, station, lines, and vehicles. This is different than Finch or the Crosstown where the vehicles were independent of the station builds
With Line 2/4 I recall the vehicles were independent of the station builds
reaperexpress
Senior Member
If the line were double tracked (except for the tunnel) that would save more than just the 6-minute transfer. It would also save much of the schedule padding that is required to make sure trains meet precisely at the sidings (especially the tiny Walkley siding) and would eliminate most of the speed restrictions due to switching tracks. If they can resolve the 25 km/h restriction at platforms and/or electrify the line that would also save additional time.
Last edited:
reaperexpress
Senior Member
Montreal Gare Centrale's 28 departures/day doesn't even make the top 30 let alone the top 3.There's 20 via departures per day, and 42 Exo arrivals/departures per day
Central Station Complex - Montreal Central Station
Mont-Saint-Hilaire line - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Vaudreuil–Hudson line - Wikipedia
Anyway it was just a fun "technically true" fact, even though in reality South Keys isn't that special if you look at Line 2/4 as public transit
1. Toronto Union (too many to count)
2. South Keys:
89 Line 2 northbound
89 Line 2 southbound
89 Line 4
TOTAL = 267 departures/day
3-4. Weston, Bloor:
79 UP Express westbound
79 UP Express eastbound
30 Kitchener Line westbound
30 Kitchener Line eastbound
TOTAL = 218 departures/day
5-12. Corso Italia, Dow's Lake, Carleton, Mooney's Bay, Walkley, Greenboro, Leitrim, Bowesville
89 Line 2 northbound
89 Line 2 southbound
TOTAL= 178 departures/day
13. Uplands
Same as Line 2 stations
14. Guildwood:
41 Lakeshore East westbound
41 Lakeshore East eastbound
10 Via Ottawa eastbound
8 Via Ottawa westbound
5 Via Montreal westbound
5 Via Montreal eastbound
TOTAL = 110 departures/day
15. Oakville:
50 Lakeshore West eastbound
43 Lakeshore West westbound
4 Via Windsor westbound
1 Via Maple Leaf southbound
5 Via eastbound
TOTAL = 103 departures/day
16. Clarkson:
48 Lakeshore West eastbound
48 Lakeshore West westbound
TOTAL= 96 departures/day
17-19. Bayview, Limebank, Ottawa Airport
TOTAL = 89 departures/day
20. Burlington
45 Lakeshore East eastbound
43 Lakeshore East westbound
TOTAL = 88 departures/day
21-22. Appleby, Bronte
43 Lakeshore West eastbound
41 Lakeshore West westbound
TOTAL = 84 departures/day
23-29. Danforth, Scarborough, Eglinton, Rouge Hill, Pickering, Ajax, Whitby
41 Lakeshore East eastbound
41 Lakeshore East westbound
TOTAL = 82 departures/day
30.Aldershot
45 Lakeshore East westbound
26 Lakeshore West westbound
5 Via Windsor westbound
1 Via Maple Leaf southbound
5 Via eastbound
TOTAL = 82 departures/day
31. Pearson Terminal 1
TOTAL = 79 departures/day
etc.
If you want to compare Line 2 to other mainline rail services, you should also compare average speeds to provide the necessary context. In which case Line 2 scores extremely poorly. UP Express takes 11 fewer minutes to cover 3 more kilometres than the Line 2 for example:
Last edited:
Mihairokov
Active Member
It feels very Ottawa that its busiest station is suburban and 8KM from downtown.
Kyle Campbell
Senior Member
Montreal Gare Centrale's 28 departures/day doesn't even make the top 30 let alone the top 3.
1. Toronto Union (too many to count)
2. South Keys:
89 Line 2 northbound
89 Line 2 southbound
89 Line 4
TOTAL = 267 departures/day
3-4. Weston, Bloor:
79 UP Express westbound
79 UP Express eastbound
30 Kitchener Line westbound
30 Kitchener Line eastbound
TOTAL = 218 departures/day
5-12. Corso Italia, Dow's Lake, Carleton, Mooney's Bay, Walkley, Greenboro, Leitrim, Bowesville
89 Line 2 northbound
89 Line 2 southbound
TOTAL= 178 departures/day
13. Uplands
Same as Line 2 stations
14. Guildwood:
41 Lakeshore East westbound
41 Lakeshore East eastbound
10 Via Ottawa eastbound
8 Via Ottawa westbound
5 Via Montreal westbound
5 Via Montreal eastbound
TOTAL = 110 departures/day
15. Oakville:
50 Lakeshore West eastbound
43 Lakeshore West westbound
4 Via Windsor westbound
1 Via Maple Leaf southbound
5 Via eastbound
TOTAL = 103 departures/day
16. Clarkson:
48 Lakeshore West eastbound
48 Lakeshore West westbound
TOTAL= 96 departures/day
17-19. Bayview, Limebank, Ottawa Airport
TOTAL = 89 departures/day
20. Burlington
45 Lakeshore East eastbound
43 Lakeshore East westbound
TOTAL = 88 departures/day
21-22. Appleby, Bronte
43 Lakeshore West eastbound
41 Lakeshore West westbound
TOTAL = 84 departures/day
23-29. Danforth, Scarborough, Eglinton, Rouge Hill, Pickering, Ajax, Whitby
41 Lakeshore East eastbound
41 Lakeshore East westbound
TOTAL = 82 departures/day
30.Aldershot
45 Lakeshore East westbound
26 Lakeshore West westbound
5 Via Windsor westbound
1 Via Maple Leaf southbound
5 Via eastbound
TOTAL = 82 departures/day
31. Pearson Terminal 1
TOTAL = 79 departures/day
etc.
If you want to compare Line 2 to other mainline rail services, you should also compare average speeds to provide the necessary context. In which case Line 2 scores extremely poorly. UP Express takes 11 fewer minutes to cover 3 more kilometres than the Line 2 for example:
It was really just an "oh that's interesting, who knew" fact .The 340ish number for South Keys was if you count the arriving/departing Line 4 as two trips as it's a change in direction (although I also miscounted as 90 trips rather than 89 for each line)
I do love this full list though, I was looking for something like that online
Last edited:
Kyle Campbell
Senior Member
If you want to compare Line 2 to other mainline rail services, you should also compare average speeds to provide the necessary context. In which case Line 2 scores extremely poorly. UP Express takes 11 fewer minutes to cover 3 more kilometres than the Line 2 for example:
I'm actually a little surprised by the UPX average speed, given it only has two intermediate stops I would have guessed a higher average speed.
Kyle Campbell
Senior Member
At least there's some forward thinking for such eventualities. The airport station was built to allow a platform extension, the FLIRTs were chosen because they can be converted to electric by swapping the power module, and the EA planned for full double tracking and electrification at some point in the future. But of course we all know how false the "easily convertible" promise for the transitway was, and I expect that double tracking will be a much bigger project then they believe
reaperexpress
Senior Member
UPX spends a long time travelling slowly near both Pearson and Union, and it's limited to 10 mph at platforms.
When UP Express started in 2015 I compared it to every premium-fare airport rail link I could find, and UP Express was the slowest of them all. Heathrow Express covers the exact same distance in 15 minutes (average speed 88 km/h). UP Express' low speed explains why it was so unpopular when it had a super-premium fare. For an ordinary regional rail service, the average speed is pretty respectable, so that also explains its popularity now that ticket prices are reduced roughly to GO Transit levels.