[nfitz]

That's not what I said. You make it seem like ONLY sending it to ONR supports our economy.

Where did I say anything about supporting our economy? I simply noted that the low bidder wins.

 

[micheal_can]

So sending them to CAD in Quebec wouldnt be supporting our economy?

It does not support Ontario's economy.

 

[smallspy]

On Facebook, in many groups, people are posting about the refurbished GO train making its way back to Toronto to return to service. When I see that, I wonder why the province would ever waste the time to find another place for them to be refurbished.The Government owns the North Bay shops. They do good work.It stabilizes jobs in the ONR.

ONR is almost never the lowest bidder, so if they are going to be chosen as the defacto standard refurbisher, a decision needs to be made that those additional costs will need to be borne by someone.

Also: the work they do is frequently not as good as from other options.

Dan

 

[Bordercollie]

ONR is almost never the lowest bidder, so if they are going to be chosen as the defacto standard refurbisher, a decision needs to be made that those additional costs will need to be borne by someone.

Also: the work they do is frequently not as good as from other options.

Dan

You would think that Alstom would be the best buy default since they built them in the first place.

 

[micheal_can]

ONR is almost never the lowest bidder, so if they are going to be chosen as the defacto standard refurbisher, a decision needs to be made that those additional costs will need to be borne by someone.

The Ontario taxpayer is paying for it. That is who pays the people working at ONR's North Bay shops. The difference is if it is not done in ON, then the Ontario taxpayer is paying those people not in the province.

Also: the work they do is frequently not as good as from other options.

Dan

I have heard differently. Can you give examples of the lower quality workmanship?

 

[smallspy]

The Ontario taxpayer is paying for it. That is who pays the people working at ONR's North Bay shops. The difference is if it is not done in ON, then the Ontario taxpayer is paying those people not in the province.

Yes, but if the Ontario taxpayer is paying MORE for the work to be done, you don't see that as a problem?

There's also the fact that each organization has its own budget, and can not increase it willy-nilly just to suit your whims.

I have heard differently. Can you give examples of the lower quality workmanship?

You seem to hear a lot of things. Thankfully, very few of them are grounded in fact.

206 was wired backwards, that's why it had to be returned to North Bay.

They generally take almost twice as long to complete any refurbishing job as any other shop. For instance, the refurbishment of the 2200s and 2300s was supposed to be done in 36 months - it dragged out over 6 years. The rebuilding of the 15 cab cars has gone similarly over schedule.

Dan

 

[Bordercollie]

Yes, but if the Ontario taxpayer is paying MORE for the work to be done, you don't see that as a problem?

There's also the fact that each organization has its own budget, and can not increase it willy-nilly just to suit your whims.


You seem to hear a lot of things. Thankfully, very few of them are grounded in fact.

206 was wired backwards, that's why it had to be returned to North Bay.

They generally take almost twice as long to complete any refurbishing job as any other shop. For instance, the refurbishment of the 2200s and 2300s was supposed to be done in 36 months - it dragged out over 6 years. The rebuilding of the 15 cab cars has gone similarly over schedule.

Dan

How do they wire a cab car backwards and pass Quality Control? Are they on drugs?

Are their delays due to lack of space?

 

[micheal_can]

Yes, but if the Ontario taxpayer is paying MORE for the work to be done, you don't see that as a problem?

My honest opinion is that taxpayer money should first stay within that jurisdiction, even if it costs more. So, a Federal government contract should stay in Canada. An Ontario government contract should stay in Ontario, even if it costs more.

There's also the fact that each organization has its own budget, and can not increase it willy-nilly just to suit your whims.


You seem to hear a lot of things. Thankfully, very few of them are grounded in fact.

206 was wired backwards, that's why it had to be returned to North Bay.

They generally take almost twice as long to complete any refurbishing job as any other shop. For instance, the refurbishment of the 2200s and 2300s was supposed to be done in 36 months - it dragged out over 6 years. The rebuilding of the 15 cab cars has gone similarly over schedule.

Dan

Thank you for pointing that out.
Nothing I hold is gospel, so when someone says something contrary, I like to understand more about it.

 

[TRONto]

My honest opinion is that taxpayer money should first stay within that jurisdiction, even if it costs more. So, a Federal government contract should stay in Canada. An Ontario government contract should stay in Ontario, even if it costs more.

Ideally yes, but this can (and does) lead to a lower quality product/service for our citizens. I used to agree with that POV but seeing how much worse products we end up with, I am now of the position that we find the best value (price/quality). Not talking about this specific situation but in general.

 

[micheal_can]

Ideally yes, but this can (and does) lead to a lower quality product/service for our citizens. I used to agree with that POV but seeing how much worse products we end up with, I am now of the position that we find the best value (price/quality). Not talking about this specific situation but in general.

That is why I say should, not must. Quality is important too. My question would be who is inspecting the coaches that are allowing the screw ups to happen?

 

[Bordercollie]

That is why I say should, not must. Quality is important too. My question would be who is inspecting the coaches that are allowing the screw ups to happen?

Usually there are representatives on site from the customer but since it's only three trainsets that may not be the case.

Look at the TTC street cars with parts made in Mexico that didn't fit.

Although I'm not sure how you mess up pushing the green light on the C&C machine.

Anyway why wasn't someone on site overseeing that? And the missing welds? How did that get passed quality control?

Anyway the manufacturer wants them to be delivered to get paid. If they can skip a step or two...why not ?

 

[micheal_can]

Usually there are representatives on site from the customer but since it's only three trainsets that may not be the case.

Look at the TTC street cars with parts made in Mexico that didn't fit.

Although I'm not sure how you mess up pushing the green light on the C&C machine.

Anyway why wasn't someone on site overseeing that? And the missing welds? How did that get passed quality control?

Anyway the manufacturer wants them to be delivered to get paid. If they can skip a step or two...why not ?

TBH, the North Bay shops need to step it up on their quality control. I am willing to pay that higher price, but not for shoddy work.