[smallspy]

Northlander trains have shunt enhancers installed, and aren’t subject to the same restrictions as VIA’s trains.

No, they do not. They aren't even legal in Canada yet.

They may have planned to have them installed at some nebulous time in the future, but as of this moment, they have no such equipment installed. Contrary to what some have said during the public announcements.

Dan

 

[micheal_can]

No, they do not. They aren't even legal in Canada yet.

They may have planned to have them installed at some nebulous time in the future, but as of this moment, they have no such equipment installed. Contrary to what some have said during the public announcements.

Dan

Do we have any evidence of them being installed or not?

 

[lenaitch]

It may be a matter of, to steal a phrase common in the military, that the trainsets were manufactured 'for, not with' shunt enhancers.

 

[micheal_can]

It may be a matter of, to steal a phrase common in the military, that the trainsets were manufactured 'for, not with' shunt enhancers.

Well, using these as a test train for them would make sense, purely due to the axle number. Rotate one onto the Corridor as a special train in a different timing, not for revenue service and see how the signals react.

 

[nfitz]

Well, using these as a test train for them would make sense, purely due to the axle number. Rotate one onto the Corridor as a special train in a different timing, not for revenue service and see how the signals react.

For how many years?

What's the crossing failure rate because of the lack of shunting? One in a thousand trips? One in ten thousand?

Probably want to see a ten of so failures before any conclusions were made. So 10,000 to 100,000 trips. If 2 a day, might see some results by 2050 to 2100.

 

[micheal_can]

For how many years?

What's the crossing failure rate because of the lack of shunting? One in a thousand trips? One in ten thousand?

Probably want to see a ten of so failures before any conclusions were made. So 10,000 to 100,000 trips. If 2 a day, might see some results by 2050 to 2100.

Ok,
Does that mean that they should not test anything?

 

[dowlingm]

For how many years?

What's the crossing failure rate because of the lack of shunting? One in a thousand trips? One in ten thousand?

Probably want to see a ten of so failures before any conclusions were made. So 10,000 to 100,000 trips. If 2 a day, might see some results by 2050 to 2100.

I don't necessarily think that ONR would agree to use its own trainset to do VIA's testing for it - if they need shunt enhancement then presumably somewhere on the Bala there is a crossing to test with, and they may not wish to be entangled with CN and VIA's disagreements on the Kingston Sub, but this seems an unduly aggressive position to take in response - indeed, a review of @Trackside_Treasure's blog posts regarding the dispute might well give you your answer.

Presumably ONR, CN and Siemens would agree on a testing regime which would take into account the previous testing done with VIA as well as with other systems in the US having the same issue. It may be that this testing may have to extend over a period of time to account for seasonal variations in the railhead (temperature, leaf-fall etc.)

 

[Bordercollie]

I don't necessarily think that ONR would agree to use its own trainset to do VIA's testing for it - if they need shunt enhancement then presumably somewhere on the Bala there is a crossing to test with, and they may not wish to be entangled with CN and VIA's disagreements on the Kingston Sub, but this seems an unduly aggressive position to take in response - indeed, a review of @Trackside_Treasure's blog posts regarding the dispute might well give you your answer.

Presumably ONR, CN and Siemens would agree on a testing regime which would take into account the previous testing done with VIA as well as with other systems in the US having the same issue. It may be that this testing may have to extend over a period of time to account for seasonal variations in the railhead (temperature, leaf-fall etc.)

But at those speeds what is the point of having Shunt Enhancers? It's not like you need to slow down from 90Mph from 55 Mph at the crossing? The max speed is only 70Mph at any point along the line.

 

[nfitz]

I don't necessarily think that ONR would agree to use its own trainset to do VIA's testing for it ...

I'm surprised you leave any margin for a chance that they would! It's obviously not going to happen. It'd be crazy.

indeed, a review of @Trackside_Treasure's blog posts regarding the dispute might well give you your answer.

If the certainty that it would provide an answer is that low, I'm not sure why I'd be digging and googling to find their blog and the relevant post. Also, I have no question. Edit - quickly looking at https://tracksidetreasure.blogspot.com/ I see no sign of any discussion of ONR Venture shunting.

It's just another fantastical question for the sake of making a post.

 

[lenaitch]

Well, using these as a test train for them would make sense, purely due to the axle number. Rotate one onto the Corridor as a special train in a different timing, not for revenue service and see how the signals react.

I'm not even sure that they could be tested without TC approval, and probably certainly not in revenue service (with passengers on board). ONT has one trainset in service and will only have three total. I'm not sure they would be willing to spare them.

The way I understand it (stand to be corrected), shunt failures, assuming they actually exist, are an issue on the high speed Corridor, in particular with predictive or adaptive crossing signals that adjust to the train's speed. Even if there are any of these types of signals on the Bala sub, I doubt the speeds are all that high.

Ps: I am told that the installation of shelters on ONR property is substantially completed, but less so on the Newmarket sub. I was in South River today and there is no sign of construction.

Pps: I am told the handover date for the Newmarket sub is in September.

 

[micheal_can]

I'm not even sure that they could be tested without TC approval, and probably certainly not in revenue service (with passengers on board). ONT has one trainset in service and will only have three total. I'm not sure they would be will to spare them.

The way I understand it (stand to be corrected), shunt failures, assuming they actually exist, are an issue on the high speed Corridor, in particular with predictive or adaptive crossing signals that adjust to the train's speed. Even if there are any of these types of signals on the Bala sub, I doubt the speeds are all that high.

My assumption is that there would be a process to go from assuming they do not work to assuming they do work. It is how most other industries work.

Ps: I am told that the installation of shelters on ONR property is substantially completed, but less so on the Newmarket sub. I was in South River today and there is no sign of construction.

Pps: I am told the handover date for the Newmarket sub is in September.

I thought they already handed it over. If that is the case, I wonder if that is when ONR will use their engines for the existing freight on it.

 

[smallspy]

Do we have any evidence of them being installed or not?

It's patently obvious when you look at the rolling stock. The Shunt Enhancers work by having large antennas that need to be located parallel to and just above the railhead in between the axles of the trucks on the loco and cab car. They can only be placed about 4 to 6 inches above the railhead - which is part of the reason why there is all sorts of certification required to allow them to be used. (The fact that they act on existing signal equipment is also a good reason for requiring additional testing and certification.)

None of the ONR equipment thus far built or delivered has anything located in those areas.

It may be a matter of, to steal a phrase common in the military, that the trainsets were manufactured 'for, not with' shunt enhancers.

It would require a bit of a leap of faith, not to mention a pretty large dose of buying into the marketing wank, to actually believe this in this particular case.

But then again, these pronouncements are being made by people who are not technical experts - hell, they aren't even technologically savvy - and so putting some words on the paper for them to regurgitate out is probably good enough.

Dan

 

[SaugeenJunction]

It's patently obvious when you look at the rolling stock. The Shunt Enhancers work by having large antennas that need to be located parallel to and just above the railhead in between the axles of the trucks on the loco and cab car. They can only be placed about 4 to 6 inches above the railhead - which is part of the reason why there is all sorts of certification required to allow them to be used. (The fact that they act on existing signal equipment is also a good reason for requiring additional testing and certification.)

None of the ONR equipment thus far built or delivered has anything located in those areas.


It would require a bit of a leap of faith, not to mention a pretty large dose of buying into the marketing wank, to actually believe this in this particular case.

But then again, these pronouncements are being made by people who are not technical experts - hell, they aren't even technologically savvy - and so putting some words on the paper for them to regurgitate out is probably good enough.

Dan

Never seen them before, but shunt enhancers look weird/cool!

 

[NorthernTracks]

Explorers' Edge welcomes FlixBus to Muskoka and Ontario's Great Canadian Wilderness

Addition expands transport options to Muskoka, North Bay and Parry Sound

www.northernontariobusiness.com

 

[NorthernTracks]

Highway 17 rehabilitation project brings $53M to Algoma

Nearly 17 kilometres of Highway 17 from Echo Bay to Highway 548 are being rehabilitated at the cost of $53 million.

www.saultstar.com

The article is about more than just passenger rail, but I thought I would share an excerpt that would interest this discussion group.

Sarkara agreed that passenger rail is also vital to Northern Ontario, and while the first portion of the Northlander is now operational, work is continuing to partner with the Northlander to determine where more opportunities exist and what tracks exist, he said.

He blamed the NDP for choosing not to support the Northlander in 2012, one of the reasons why that project was cancelled, he said.

“We are bringing that back because we appreciate the need for passenger rail service in the North and appreciate looking at other places like Sault Ste. Marie, Sudbury and Thunder Bay where we can get access for passenger rail as well,” he said.