[goodcitywhenfinished]

On Steve Munro's blog, I saw this. It seems the current thinking is to extend OL West to Dundas West. I suppose that imagines following the GO ROW.

View attachment 664174

The Priority of Transit Corridors

Anyone who has watched the transit “planning” debates at Council or at the TTC will know that various schemes for higher order transit pop up from time to time, but they are rarely cons…

stevemunro.ca

I like the idea of going to Dundas West because it offloads significant ridership from the core of Line 2, but I don't know where you go after that. Follow the corridor to Junction and then north up Jane?

I also think we will just see way more population growth in Humber Bay Shores/Queensway/Gardiner/Central Etobicoke vs only modest density increases in Parkdale/Roncy/Junction

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

I like the idea of going to Dundas West because it offloads significant ridership from the core of Line 2, but I don't know where you go after that. Follow the corridor to Junction and then north up Jane?

I also think we will just see way more population growth in Humber Bay Shores/Queensway/Gardiner/Central Etobicoke vs only modest density increases in Parkdale/Roncy/Junction

With GO trains using the connection to the Dundas West TTC Station, people can transfer using Ontario's One Fare, which means you can transfer for FREE when travelling between GO Transit and most local transit systems. This makes GO an "express" service for TTC users.

 

[afransen]

With GO trains using the connection to the Dundas West TTC Station, people can transfer using Ontario's One Fare, which means you can transfer for FREE when travelling between GO Transit and most local transit systems. This makes GO an "express" service for TTC users.

I hear what you're saying, but a TTC rider would need to pay the GO fare as it currently stands to benefit from that.

To me, paralleling the GO service to Dundas West seems like an odd choice as it is not adding much from a network effects standpoint and GO should have sufficient capacity with GO Expansion. Might be why this extension scored so low in the prioritization.

 

[Rainforest]

If the current phase of Ontario Line stayed on Queen, then I think the preferred route for the westerly extension would be north-west or north to meet the Bloor line. Likely, turning north up Dufferin to help the traffic there, or perhaps going via Dundas West.

However, with the line swinging quite far south to reach the Exhibition, I doubt it makes sense to turn it north from there.

If Dufferin or Dundas West get a subway heading downtown, it will be better to send that line into downtown on a more direct path. Dufferin - Dundas Street, or Dundas West Stn - Dundas Street, or perhaps even Dufferin - King. That will result in added capacity into downtown, rather than piggy-backing on the OL stations / platforms.

For OL West: since the current western terminus is already in the Lakeshore West rail corridor, it would make sense to continue west from there. If that option is chosen, then surface / elevated alignment is a must. Cannot tunnel in that direction, not just because of the Humber river mouth, but even more importantly because of the high pressure aquifer running under High Park.

On the other hand, the need to stay above surface is not a bad thing in this case, it will make construction much cheaper.

How far to go? that's debatable. A modest proposal would be to only go as far as Parkside Drive, and connect to the streetcar routes there. That would sidestep the struggles with the Bremner Blvd LRT; streetcar riders from Lakeshore West / South Etobicoke would transfer to OL at the Parkside Drive interchange to reach downtown, and avoid the slow streetcar ride along Queen West. An added benefit: downtown residents will be able to take a direct subway ride to the south side of High Park.

More ambitious options would be going to Humber Loop, or Park Lawn, or even all the way along Queensway to Sherway Gardens. Obviously, the Queensway portion would be tunneled, and that is not cheap.

 

[Mihairokov]

If Dufferin or Dundas West get a subway heading downtown, it will be better to send that line into downtown on a more direct path. Dufferin - Dundas Street, or Dundas West Stn - Dundas Street, or perhaps even Dufferin - King. That will result in added capacity into downtown, rather than piggy-backing on the OL stations / platforms.

I think my issue with this is any subway that goes Dundas West -> Downtown is going to be duplicating service we already have on Dundas with TTC streetcar. Using College would be the same issue. I'm sure others know more than me but I think our energy lies better elsewhere in creating new transit corridors rather than improving specific corridors. After OL comes online I agree that the West End will need improved transit connections.

If we're sending OL West to Dundas West my preference would be for it to go up Roncesvalle so we're not doubling service on the GO ROW. I see that Dufferin BRT scores well on the chart, which is good, but I think we may as well institute something higher-capacity on Dufferin and just send that from Exhibition up Dufferin all the way up to Eglinton West or Sheppard West, whether that's OL or something else entirely.

 

[Adjei]

I thought the long term plan for this kind according to the Ontario government is for it to go to Kipling Station and then onto Pearson ?

 

[fanoftoronto]

Here were 2 of my options for future extensions of the line. Feel free to critique as required:

I have missed a lot of local stations in the above fantasy map. There's a lot of room for improvement.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Here were 2 of my options for future extensions of the line. Feel free to critique as required:
View attachment 664424

I have missed a lot of local stations in the above fantasy map. There's a lot of room for improvement.

This is how I pretty much envision it - travelling west to serve Humber Bay then up along the Queensway to either Kipling or the 427 to serve density appearing in those areas. All mostly elevated / at grade to avoid tunneling.

 

[Ward8]

If Dufferin or Dundas West get a subway heading downtown, it will be better to send that line into downtown on a more direct path. Dufferin - Dundas Street, or Dundas West Stn - Dundas Street, or perhaps even Dufferin - King. That will result in added capacity into downtown, rather than piggy-backing on the OL stations / platforms.

I think if there were to be 2 lines then it would make more sense to turn the OL north along dufferin and have that "Dundas" line run parallel to line 2 into the west. That'd give you an interchange station and maximize the connectivity.

As far as the general conversation: Going north and west both provide a level of duplicate service with GO early. It's where the line goes after that that breaks new ground. Both directions make sense.

 

[christiesplits]

Here were 2 of my options for future extensions of the line. Feel free to critique as required:
View attachment 664424

I have missed a lot of local stations in the above fantasy map. There's a lot of room for improvement.

Thanks for sharing. Could the OL rolling stock make that tight of a turn by Humber Bay?

 

[fanoftoronto]

Thanks for sharing. Could the OL rolling stock make that tight of a turn by Humber Bay?

Honestly don't know what the specs of the OL rolling stock is going to be. But looking at Google, it shows average turning radii of 60 - 80m which would fine in that area. In any case, the line would have to be underground in that area.

 

[Rainforest]

Thanks for sharing. Could the OL rolling stock make that tight of a turn by Humber Bay?

It might be easier to straighten that section. Switch from the LSW rail corridor to the Queensway at the point where Queensway runs next to the Gardiner.

 

[Rainforest]

I think if there were to be 2 lines then it would make more sense to turn the OL north along dufferin and have that "Dundas" line run parallel to line 2 into the west. That'd give you an interchange station and maximize the connectivity.

I think it is a trade-off. More connectivity if the two lines cross in this matter, but at the price of more mileage and thus higher construction costs.

 

[Rainforest]

I think my issue with this is any subway that goes Dundas West -> Downtown is going to be duplicating service we already have on Dundas with TTC streetcar. Using College would be the same issue. I'm sure others know more than me but I think our energy lies better elsewhere in creating new transit corridors rather than improving specific corridors. After OL comes online I agree that the West End will need improved transit connections.

Streetcars don't have much capacity. The Ontario line will address the short-term need, but if the demand into downtown continues to grow, then another high-capacity line will be needed in 20 or 30 years from now.

And then, any chosen corridor will be one already served by a streetcar (Dundas, College, or King), or very close to an existing streetcar route (say, Richmond or Adelaide).

If we're sending OL West to Dundas West my preference would be for it to go up Roncesvalle so we're not doubling service on the GO ROW.

Probably a good idea; improves the service in the areas that don't have rapid transit today (Jameson and Roncesvalles). Connection to the streetcars at Queen and Roncesvalles will allow the streetcar riders bypass the slow trip along Queen West.

Plus, the southerly alignment of OL will actually be of some use, since the turn from the rail corridor or King to Roncesvalles is a lot smoother than a turn from Queen to Roncesvalles would be.

I see that Dufferin BRT scores well on the chart, which is good, but I think we may as well institute something higher-capacity on Dufferin and just send that from Exhibition up Dufferin all the way up to Eglinton West or Sheppard West, whether that's OL or something else entirely.

Up Dufferin to Eglinton, would be quite helpful. The bus route is very busy there, and there are no other high-capacity options.

North of Eglinton, I would look at diverting north-west, away from Dufferin. Perhaps up Keele or Jane. Dufferin gets too close to the existing Spadina subway in that area, and we don't need two high-capacity lines competing for the same riders.

 

[CapitalSeven]

The problem with the western route is this: South of Bloor, Dufferin needs help and would be improved by wholesale redevelopment, while Roncesvalles is just the opposite. North of Bloor, Jane needs help but any southern route that far west has all sorts of obstacles. So, my own Personal Crayon Corridor would go up Dufferin to Dupont then shift over to Jane under the existing hydro/park corridor, hitting Davenport, St. Clair, the north end of the new GO station. No you can't run a subway on the surface, but tunneling wouldn't need to be 100 feet deep the way Metrolinx seems to prefer now, and who knows, maybe some of the hydro could go underground too.