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samsonyuen

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From: www.theglobeandmail.com/s...t/Ontario/
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A new province called Mantario?

JOHN IBBITSON

Has the time come to reverse the verdict of the Battle of Rat Portage? The most recent issue of Canadian Public Policy magazine contains an article by Livio Di Matteo and two other academics that explores the possibility of Northwestern Ontario leaving Ontario.

The question was supposedly settled in the 1880s. Back then, both Manitoba (supported by the federal government) and Ontario claimed the vast lands north and west of what is now Thunder Bay. Each government sent in its own officials and police, who promptly began arresting each other in the town of Rat Portage (wisely renamed Kenora). Fortunately, the "battle" never actually descended into violence, and the British were asked to adjudicate. They gave the land to Ontario, and the northwest has never been happy since.

With 60 per cent of Ontario's land, a Great Lakes port and forest and mineral wealth, Northwestern Ontario is, in theory, a valuable catch. But a mere 235,000 people live there; the region accounts for only 2 per cent of the provincial population. As many immigrants arrive in Ontario every two years as live in the entire northwest.

Ontario has always regarded its north as a colony, good for resource extraction and not much else. The people of the northwest (who refer to southern Ontario as "down east") rightly believe they have little influence at Queen's Park. There are repeated rumblings, and some odd character or other is always trying to get a secessionist movement going. Messrs. Di Matteo et al. decided to take a hard look at the political and economic case for change.

Their first scenario involves switching provinces. Northwestern Ontario could join Manitoba, creating a new province that the authors christen "Mantario." This would be good for Manitoba, which would gain a population boost (with an average income higher than the current Manitoba average), lumber and mineral resources, and a major port. Northwesterners, in exchange, would enjoy much greater representation in the Manitoba legislature (11 out of 68 seats) than they currently claim at Queen's Park (three out of 103), with the capital closer both in real terms and in outlook.

Economically, it would be a wash. Northwestern Ontario would lose the extensive subsidies provided by the Ontario government, but it would be joining a have-not province, which would lead to an increase in federal equalization payments -- largely paid for, of course, by those southern Ontario taxpayers.

Taxes are higher in Manitoba, but the province spends more on government services. This would appeal to the northwest, which relies heavily on subsidies. Politically and economically, the authors conclude, Northwestern Ontario would have as much to gain as it would to lose by becoming part of the Prairies.

The authors also contemplate the possibility of turning Northwestern Ontario into its own province. Such a province would be small, poor and utterly dependent on federal grants -- typical, in other words. The most practical scenario would see Queen's Park devolving partial authority to an elected regional council.

The biggest obstacle to reform might be simple apathy. "The demand for a new province does not enjoy support beyond the level of coffee-table discussion," the authors note. "This choice may be analogous to one between remaining in Ontario's attic, becoming Manitoba's basement or simply moving out into your own place. In the absence of any motivating regional ambition, the choice may simply be to remain in the attic."

Straw man raised, straw man knocked down. Except for one thing. Northern Ontario, the B.C. Interior, Manitoba outside Winnipeg, Quebec outside Montreal and Quebec City, and almost all of Atlantic Canada are on the outside, watching a modern, urban, multiethnic Canada recede ever further from their experience. Their populations dwindle, their influence dissipates, their legislatures increasingly ignore them.

In the coming decades, accommodating the hinterlands to the reality of urban Canada will test the bonds of the federation. Some day, Mantario may not sound so foolish after all.
 
Re: Northwestern Ontario...the New Province of Mantario? (Gl

Every once in a while this is mentioned. I'm sure all Ibbitson had to do was go into the Globe archives and cut-and-paste 80 percent of the article together, and fill in the gaps.

I'm not all that worried, and the arguments are interesting, if not sound. Though maybe the entire province, except the Greater Golden Horseshoe should separate, if only to get to milk the equalization cash cow. :)
 
Re: Northwestern Ontario...the New Province of Mantario? (Gl

If I recall the last time this idea was brought up (just a few months ago) it was concerning a town, who's name escapes me, in Ontario that was examining the idea of joining Alberta.

The one point I do agree with is that in the next few decades these issues will move from simply being theoretical proposals discussed in the fringes to mainstream discussion. "Mantario" is not the only example of this. There are often articles about Vancouver Island becoming its own province, the Toronto City-State discussion, not too mention the most obvious one.

What can one say really but, it is Canada, and these kinds of discussion have always taken place and will continue to take place so long as people still inhabit the great expanse.
 
Re: Northwestern Ontario...the New Province of Mantario? (Gl

I'd support The Golden Horshoe becoming a province if the Conservatives were to regain power of Ontario. I want nothing to do with the previous Toronto hating administration.
 
Re: Northwestern Ontario...the New Province of Mantario? (Gl

If I recall the last time this idea was brought up (just a few months ago) it was concerning a town, who's name escapes me, in Ontario that was examining the idea of joining Alberta.

Kenora was the town, mentioned in the article as Rat Portage. Never should have changed it. Canada has some great town names.
 
Re: Northwestern Ontario...the New Province of Mantario? (Gl

If Quebec were to ever pull a UDI this would be a given. No way would the ROC (Rest of Canada) put up with Ontario having a population that controls 60 plus % of the electorate. The freeing of the North from the political weasels of Toronto would create a more rural voice less dependant of the Friends of the CBC types. Probably a good thing for diversity and diverging interests of the two different groups.

Toronto centric types could elect all the Miller/Hall/Sewell/Rae types they want and the rest could elect Flaherty/Harris types.

I would imagine a simpler solution would be all of Ontario evicting Toronto from the Province. :lol
 
Re: Northwestern Ontario...the New Province of Mantario? (Gl

Even if northern Ontario left, Ontario's population would hardly change, considering almost nobody lives up there. Some 200 000, which is half of what lives in the Niagara Region (which is fairly rural).

If you wanted to break Ontario into honestly smaller pieces, either eastern Ontario (Ottawa and surrounds) or southwestern Ontario (Windsor, London, but probably not KW/Guelph), or just leave Ontario whole and carve out the Golden Horseshoe. Everything else would be mainly changing land area, not population.
 
Re: Northwestern Ontario...the New Province of Mantario? (Gl

I thought "Mantario" already existed north of Carlton, west of the Don Valley, south of Bloor and east of Bay. :b
 
Re: Northwestern Ontario...the New Province of Mantario? (Gl

slap_head.gif
 
Re: Northwestern Ontario...the New Province of Mantario? (Gl

Here's my solution -

Draw a line south on 89W. That's the furthest east Manitoba comes. According to Google Earth Thunder Bay is then in Manitoba.

As a bonus, neither is the subway car factory so Siemens might get a fair go and with the $100m saved we can buy some streetcars for Toronto.
 
Re: Northwestern Ontario...the New Province of Mantario? (Gl

Okay, here's a deal. How about in exchange for us buying their subway cars, we force them to use Toronto banks, watch Toronto TV, and deal with Toronto for almost all provincial government services. Oh, wait. We already do all those things.
 
Re: Northwestern Ontario...the New Province of Mantario? (Gl

You forget that it's not the TTC's role to be propping up Thunder Bay. If it's anyone's role, it's the provincial government's.
 
Re: Northwestern Ontario...the New Province of Mantario? (Gl

...and who is paying for this subway car project?
 
Re: Northwestern Ontario...the New Province of Mantario? (Gl

We don't force them to use TO banks, TV, etc. Alternatives do exist.
 
Re: Northwestern Ontario...the New Province of Mantario? (Gl

No they don't. Our financial services and broadcasting markets are protected industries, and all of the major players in those industries are headquartered in Toronto. That protection is designed to support Toronto.
 

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