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kEiThZ said:
You should be able to link to it. And vouch for the credibility of the source. Not just throw out some random line about "reported by Israeli media". I'm sure their press is as diverse as ours and also has a wide variety of quality in reporting. So please feel free to provide links and verified sources beyond "some Israeli dude said so".



Cool. So it's acceptable to kill civilians in Israel why?

Be specific.
Click to expand...
www.haaretz.com

IDF ordered Hannibal directive on October 7 to prevent Hamas taking soldiers captive

'There Was Crazy Hysteria, and Decisions Started Being Made Without Verified Information': Documents and Testimonies Obtained by Haaretz Reveal the Hannibal Operational Order, Which Directs the Use of Force to Prevent Soldiers Being Taken Into Captivity, Was Employed at Three Army Facilities...
www.haaretz.com www.haaretz.com
 
kEiThZ said:
So it's acceptable to kill civilians in Israel why?
Click to expand...
it's acceptable to kill civilians in Gaza why?
it's acceptable to kill civilians in the West Bank why?
it's acceptable to kill civilians in Iran why?
it's acceptable to kill civilians in Iraq why?
it's acceptable to kill civilians in Afghanistan why?
 
picard102 said:
it's acceptable to kill civilians in Gaza why?
it's acceptable to kill civilians in the West Bank why?
it's acceptable to kill civilians in Iran why?
it's acceptable to kill civilians in Iraq why?
it's acceptable to kill civilians in Afghanistan why?
Click to expand...

Correct. Nobody should be intentionally targeting civilians. But if you do, you shouldn't expect that hiding behind your own will protect you when war comes. Hamas can easily choose to fight the Israelis on open terrain, wearing uniforms (as required by Hague conventions). Why don't they?

The previous excuse used was that war didn't start on October 7th. As if this makes murdering concert goers acceptable. This is exactly why I asked about 9/11. The exact same excuse was used by apologists for Islamists then.
 
picard102 said:
Why are you holding Palestinians to a higher standard than Israel?
Click to expand...

Higher? No. Exact same standard.

1) Don't deliberately target civilians.

2) Don't meld in to the civilian population making them vulnerable.

3) Fight as an identifiable, unformed force, as required by the Hague Convention.

I'd ask you and the others here why, "the war started below October 7th" is used to justify direct attacks on civilians on October 7th?

There have been all kinds of insurgencies and revolutions throughout history. They've always struggled when they openly targeted civilians. I don't think the Palestinian cause is served by doing so. On the other hand, if they stuck to attacking military targets exclusively, I don't even think Israelis would view those attacks as offside.
 
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kEiThZ said:
I'd ask you and the others here why, "the war started below October 7th" is used to justify direct attacks on civilians on October 7th?
Click to expand...
It's not, it's used to highlight the hypocrisy of those who justify Israel's actions and those who use October 7th as an excuse to allow Israel to kill civilians.

kEiThZ said:
I don't even think Israelis would view those attacks as offside.
Click to expand...
I think that's a far too generous interpretation of a populace that has consistently supported the IDF's excessive force.
 
narduch said:
www.haaretz.com

IDF ordered Hannibal directive on October 7 to prevent Hamas taking soldiers captive

'There Was Crazy Hysteria, and Decisions Started Being Made Without Verified Information': Documents and Testimonies Obtained by Haaretz Reveal the Hannibal Operational Order, Which Directs the Use of Force to Prevent Soldiers Being Taken Into Captivity, Was Employed at Three Army Facilities...
www.haaretz.com www.haaretz.com
Click to expand...
I would also include this very detailed hour-by-hour account by Israel's Ynet News that backs up the assertion made by Haaretz. https://z.ynet.co.il/long/content/specials/time-of-darkness/ In this detailed account, the following (translated from Hebrew):

"In the week following the Black Sabbath, soldiers from elite units, at the initiative of the Southern Command, inspected some 70 vehicles that remained in the area between the border communities and the Gaza Strip. These vehicles did not reach Gaza because they were hit by gunfire from a combat helicopter, UAV, or tank, and at least in some cases, everyone in the vehicle was killed."

Let that sink in. The Israeli military examined 70 of the burnt-out vehicles and determined that they were hit by gunfire from a combat helicopter, UAV, or tank! You can reach only one conclusion from reading that. Ynet News is one of the largest media outlets in Israel, and it tends to lean conservative on security and military matters.

Finally, former Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant confirmed what was reported by Haaretz and Ynet News in an interview with Channel 12: https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/yoa...bal-directive-during-october-7-attack-7663931

For the last two years, I have been following the reporting in Israeli media because they report things that you will never see reported in Western media outlets.
 
lenaitch said:
Besides, a quote that is roughly 50 years old?
Click to expand...
Here's some from the current leader.

“There will be no Palestinian state on my watch.” Netanyahu during 2015 elections.
“The Saudis can create a Palestinian state in Saudi Arabia; they have a lot of land over there,” Earlier this year.
 
Bibi's "Let them eat cake!" is pretty telling though... /bleh
 
Reopening this thread; please focus general discussion on Iran, etc. here, keeping the Carney and Trump threads more focused on their own actions and policy.

Again, please keep things civil, respectful, and thoughtful.
 
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