[Justin10000]

I cannot believe people can find issues with a message telling imploring Torontonians to fight for a project that will benefit the city.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Given that we are in an election year and there are candidates from across the political spectrum who have widely differing opinions on Transit City, I am wondering if it's ethical for the mayor to make use of the TTC's Public Address system to put forward what largely amounts to a political message that certainly favours some candidates. I'd love to see the city's ethics commissioner take a stab at this one. Even Lastman never made announcements on the PA begging voters to challenge the provincial government on the subway cutbacks.

Furthermore has the Provincial or Federal Governments used the TTC PA system to further their goals? I wonder what uprising there would be here if Harper suddenly appeared on the TTC PA system pushing, whatever.

I can't even recall if there were ads on the system for the Federal Economic Action Plan which was heavily pushed, though I might be mistaken. However that would be advertising then and not PA system announcements.

Point is that it is rather sketchy to start using the TTC PA system to try to sway public opinion.

 

[The Mad Navigator]

I cannot believe people can find issues with a message telling imploring Torontonians to fight for a project that will benefit the city.

Many of them post right here in this forum.

 

[kEiThZ]

I cannot believe people can find issues with a message telling imploring Torontonians to fight for a project that will benefit the city.

It's the Orwellian nature of it that's bothersome to some. Just imgaine what you'd say if every federal building you entered piped out messages from Stephen Harper every 10 mins in the lobby.

I also find it troubling because it's an election issue. Transit City is a contentious issue that's been put back on the table. These ads unfairly boost one candidate (Pantalone) while implying that anybody who doesn't endorse Transit City is anti-transit. If Miller feels so strongly about protecting Transit City, why doesn't he just run?

And lastly I question the wisdom of using public resources to directly target another level of government (particularly one administered by a party that has been the most generous to transit in a very long time). Would the TTC allow voice ads by transit advocacy groups which target other levels of government. If they can't, then what gives the mayor the right? Why can't he stick to posters like everybody else?

 

[kEiThZ]

Furthermore has the Provincial or Federal Governments used the TTC PA system to further their goals? I wonder what uprising there would be here if Harper suddenly appeared on the TTC PA system pushing, whatever.

I can't even recall if there were ads on the system for the Federal Economic Action Plan which was heavily pushed, though I might be mistaken. However that would be advertising then and not PA system announcements.

Point is that it is rather sketchy to start using the TTC PA system to try to sway public opinion.

The federal government has stuck to generic radio and tv ads about stimulus works and some site specific hoardings/billboards where stimulus money is paying for the project.

Given the general endorsement in this thread of Miller's actions, I wonder how people would feel here if the Sheppard East LRT played a message from Stephen Harper every 10 mins reminding riders that the SELRT was brought to you by the Federal Economic Action Plan. Or why not let Dalton McGuinty broadcast a counter-message given how much the province is pitching and has pitched in for new lines and current and future TTC ops? Would that be alright? At least on the TYSSE, the new SRT and the SELRT....

 

[The Mad Navigator]

And lastly I question the wisdom of using public resources to directly target another level of government (particularly one administered by a party that has been the most generous to transit in a very long time). Would the TTC allow voice ads by transit advocacy groups which target other levels of government. If they can't, then what gives the mayor the right? Why can't he stick to posters like everybody else?

Maybe because the same shit hasn't worked in the past? What gets me is that we study, over study, then over over study to the point where nothing gets PHYSICALLY gets constructed. Can you believe how much transit progress this city has made by this? Neither can I!

 

[GraphicMatt]

The federal government has stuck to generic radio and tv ads about stimulus works and some site specific hoardings/billboards where stimulus money is paying for the project.

Given the general endorsement in this thread of Miller's actions, I wonder how people would feel here if the Sheppard East LRT played a message from Stephen Harper every 10 mins reminding riders that the SELRT was brought to you by the Federal Economic Action Plan. Or why not let Dalton McGuinty broadcast a counter-message given how much the province is pitching and has pitched in for new lines and current and future TTC ops? Would that be alright? At least on the TYSSE, the new SRT and the SELRT....

I think slippery slope arguments are BS, but, playing the game, no, I wouldn't have much of a problem with this. The feds would find it hard to push such an announcement as they don't own any infrastructure, but if the province wanted to run an announcement on GO or on future Metrolinx-owned TC lines then, yeah, go to it. Passengers would sure complain a lot of it became more than a once-in-a-while thing, though.

You're bent out of shape because "Transit City" represents something you're opposed to, but honestly what's at stake here is simply transit FUNDING. That money could be used for different projects if the next mayoral candidate made enough noise and pushed an alternative plan.

 

[kEiThZ]

I think slippery slope arguments are BS, but, playing the game, no, I wouldn't have much of a problem with this. The feds would find it hard to push such an announcement as they don't own any infrastructure, but if the province wanted to run an announcement on GO or on future Metrolinx-owned TC lines then, yeah, go to it. Passengers would sure complain a lot of it became more than a once-in-a-while thing, though.

Let's get to it. I think it'd be pretty hilarious if every Miller announcement was accompanied by a McGuinty announcement reminding riders how much the province is contributing to the TTC.

And why does it matter what infrastructure they own? Hardly any of the current subway network could have been built without provincial and even some federal funding. Surely, they should get credit. How about we apportion air time based on contributions to the TTC?

You're bent out of shape because "Transit City" represents something you're opposed to,

I could say that you think I am bent out of shape because you agree with the mayor's message. But in this instance, I honestly think the mayor is wrong for different reasons. I would be equally offended if the premier or Prime Minister decide to abuse PA systems to pump a captive audience with blatantly political messages.

but honestly what's at stake here is simply transit FUNDING.

No. What is at stake is Transit City. And how much that's at stake is a matter of debate too. Why would Metrolinx be committing to LRV buys if Transit City and transit funding were at stake? The province has committed to a deferral. They have never come out and said they absolutely will not contribute anymore towards transit. Nor have they said that any of the Transit City projects are completely off the table.

It's pure hysteria to equate Transit City with all transit funding. Last I checked, Toronto is still getting more transit expansion in the coming years and under this provincial government then it did in the last decade and a half under the previous two provincial administrations. And widening the lens a little, for the first time we have a provincial administration that is also pushing for deployment of rail transit elsewhere in the province. So how exactly is all transit funding threatened?

That money could be used for different projects if the next mayoral candidate made enough noise and pushed an alternative plan.

There you go. And that's why this is a political message being pushed to protect the mayor's legacy.

 

[Justin10000]

It's the Orwellian nature of it that's bothersome to some. Just imgaine what you'd say if every federal building you entered piped out messages from Stephen Harper every 10 mins in the lobby.

It's Orwellian to ask residents to get involved in improving public transit. Right. I listened to the mayor's message, and the message is simple "Province cut funding"(true), and can you phone, or write your MPP, or the premier about the issue. What's Orwellian about that?

I also find it troubling because it's an election issue. Transit City is a contentious issue that's been put back on the table. These ads unfairly boost one candidate (Pantalone) while implying that anybody who doesn't endorse Transit City is anti-transit. If Miller feels so strongly about protecting Transit City, why doesn't he just run?

How is it an election issue when Miller is not even running? Certain candidates made it an election issue with their silly plan to attack anything remotely linked to Miller to attract votes. You, and a few others on this boards make assumptions that are truly unbelievable sometimes. The issue is TRANSIT FUNDING, and the province backing down from it's promise.

And lastly I question the wisdom of using public resources to directly target another level of government (particularly one administered by a party that has been the most generous to transit in a very long time). Would the TTC allow voice ads by transit advocacy groups which target other levels of government. If they can't, then what gives the mayor the right? Why can't he stick to posters like everybody else?

The city runs the TTC, and funds the TTC. The mayor has every right to use the public announcement(which costs nothing) to implore the citizens to actually get involved. I cannot believe anyone would have issues with this. What if the DRL were in jeopardy? I bet your response would be different.

I'm with Matt on this one, you guys are bent out of shape with little reason for being bent out of shape. It's a simple message, not some nefarious plan to brainwash TTC riders into voting for the sole pro-TC candidate, and turn them into anti-subway expansion vzombies.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

My main problem is how Miller has hijacked this as a Toronto issue.
This is not about the "death of Transit City" or Toronto getting screwed again - it's about regional funding of transit.
Viva was due about 1/4 of the $4 billion that is getting delayed but you'd never know that from Miller's ranting or the coverage. I understand the TO mayor has to fight for Toronto but TTC's problem, from day one, has been their inability to understand their role as part of a larger network.

One of the projects on hold is the BRT on Davis Drive which is already boarded up because expropriations are done and construction is set for a few months. Delays to that project will have more of a tangible impact than putting off Miller's dream lines for another year or two.

 

[Justin10000]

My main problem is how Miller has hijacked this as a Toronto issue.
This is not about the "death of Transit City" or Toronto getting screwed again - it's about regional funding of transit.
Viva was due about 1/4 of the $4 billion that is getting delayed but you'd never know that from Miller's ranting or the coverage. I understand the TO mayor has to fight for Toronto but TTC's problem, from day one, has been their inability to understand their role as part of a larger network.

One of the projects on hold is the BRT on Davis Drive which is already boarded up because expropriations are done and construction is set for a few months. Delays to that project will have more of a tangible impact than putting off Miller's dream lines for another year or two.

Miller does not represent York, or the municipalities. You think Torontonians would like to hear an announcement on the TTC about YRT? I doubt it. Ditto goes for riders using YRT.

 

[kEiThZ]

My main problem is how Miller has hijacked this as a Toronto issue.

Bingo. That's another aspect I dislike about this announcement. I am always leary of sending out the message that Toronto deserves special treatment. Our province is in a huge deficit. Ditto for the federal government. Everybody is suffering here. I fail to see why it's not fair to have some transit expenditure deferred.

This is not about the "death of Transit City" or Toronto getting screwed again - it's about regional funding of transit.
Viva was due about 1/4 of the $4 billion that is getting delayed but you'd never know that from Miller's ranting or the coverage. I understand the TO mayor has to fight for Toronto but TTC's problem, from day one, has been their inability to understand their role as part of a larger network.

And that lack of understanding simply leads to more resentment from our neighbours....

One of the projects on hold is the BRT on Davis Drive which is already boarded up because expropriations are done and construction is set for a few months. Delays to that project will have more of a tangible impact than putting off Miller's dream lines for another year or two.

Yet, there's no omni-present voice on VIVA telling riders to harrass their local MPP.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Keithz:

Squeaky wheel gets the grease - if anything, Toronto has been far too complacent about getting its' share. Altruism isn't going to get you anywhere in politics. Funny, if it was Hazel doing the complaining (and she has been doing it for years), everyone would be calling it "strong leadership". Keep in mind - Miller is probably burning his bridges for some plump future Liberal patronage positions by doing this.

That said, I am NOT a fan of PA announcements that are not essential in general.

AoD

 

[The Mad Navigator]

Bingo. That's another aspect I dislike about this announcement. I am always leary of sending out the message that Toronto deserves special treatment. Our province is in a huge deficit. Ditto for the federal government. Everybody is suffering here. I fail to see why it's not fair to have some transit expenditure deferred.

Special treatment? Are you shitting me? If anything, Toronto gets the opposite of what is considered special treatment. This comment reeks of Mike Harris. Let me guess, you voted for the common nonsense revolution as well?

 

[kEiThZ]

Special treatment? Are you shitting me? If anything, Toronto gets the opposite of what is considered special treatment. This comment reeks of Mike Harris. Let me guess, you voted for the common nonsense revolution as well?

This is exactly the hysteria I am talking about. I don't completely buy into TC so that automatically makes me some kind of anti-transit, anti-Toronto Harrisite?

You completely missed TJ's point. And mine as well. There's a huge risk in making this all about Toronto. Especially when other municipalities are taking much bigger hits. Just look at Ottawa. They aren't getting their LRT fully paid for like the Transit City projects in Toronto. They have to pitch in a third of the cost. And the province has been demanding that they pitch in 100% over and above what the province thinks they should spend. So really it's far more than 1/3rd. From the perspective of an Ottawa residents, does it look like TO is getting special treatment?

Yet, after all this is provincial government has done for transit (particularly in the GTHA), Miller wants riders to turn on them? Ridiculous. It all reminds me of the teachers who rallied against Bob Rae to help elect Mike Harris. Be careful what you wish for....