nightstreak
Active Member
The most painful thing for Miss Liu is that she paid HBC $6M for 3 leases in her own malls and all she had to do was wait herself out like the other landlords did.
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TossYourJacket
Senior Member
Turns out when you make a business plan with iffy-at-best numbers, say different things to different landlords, violate court rules, and openly intend to break your lease agreements, it doesn't help you get those leases. I wasn't remotely surprised she lost this after the Monitor's report a couple months ago.
Honestly probably best for her in the end if she's serious about running a department store. You can make the argument that one reason both Target and Nordstom failed in Canada because they opened too many stores too fast. If she can make the stores work with the leases she has and if they're worthwhile to have as anchor tenants then opportunities will end up presenting themselves across the country sooner or later.
But as someone who's pension is with the owner of one of the major landlords here, I'm somewhat relieved the landlords succeeded here.
Honestly probably best for her in the end if she's serious about running a department store. You can make the argument that one reason both Target and Nordstom failed in Canada because they opened too many stores too fast. If she can make the stores work with the leases she has and if they're worthwhile to have as anchor tenants then opportunities will end up presenting themselves across the country sooner or later.
But as someone who's pension is with the owner of one of the major landlords here, I'm somewhat relieved the landlords succeeded here.
matrix
Active Member
I have to disagree. Ruby wasn't really doing anything entrepreneur-like. If she had that proper mindset she'd realize that the three leases she has would be a perfect place to start. I do agree we need more entrepreneurship up here, and I don't have an issue with a new homegrown department store, it just has to have a solid foundation, and Ruby did not provide any confidence in that. So much goes into creating a new store and she just seemed to want to rush it. There's a difference between taking risks and being crazy in the business world. Ruby seemed to have just wanted to open a bunch of department stores with her name on it as fast as possible. Not even Simons wants to expand that fast, and they've been around for quite some time, with much more name power than Ruby.
This is what I've been thinking for quite some time. Target and Nordstrom expanded way too fast and bit off more than they could chew, and Ruby would have just done the same here had the judge let her have those leases. That's what I meant by "being here again in a few year's time", when Ruby realizes the company won't be profitable for another decade and they need to go to bankruptcy court again.
torontowest91
Active Member
We will have to see how her first 3 stores go... any update on those?
ShonTron
Moderator
The old Hudson’s Bay store at Scarborough Town Centre is completely walled off.
stevensontransit
Active Member
How come? Because of a new tenant that’s about to announce a new location there?
Richard White
Senior Member
Possibly but it also looks better for other prospective tenants.
Clean, fresh drywall can be explained away as renovations while empty store fronts come across as a mall on life support.
It's all about optics.
matrix
Active Member
New drama, fresh off the heels of Ruby losing her battle:
www.theglobeandmail.com
Un-paywalled: https://archive.ph/8xGzR
Remember a while back when we discovered Les Ailes de la Mode (owned by Fairweather) got The Bay's Yorkdale lease in August? Well, apparently this is RioCan's doing, and what a story this is.
RioCan wants Oxford (Yorkdale's owner) to buy out their 135-year Yorkdale Bay lease for at least $75 million, and Oxford has refused. Because of this, RioCan is threatening to rent out the space to Les Ailes De La Mode (dormant department chain banner owned by Fairweather/INC) for $1 million a year. Now, that rent is far, far below the rent Hudson's Bay was paying, and they're playing serious hardball. RioCan has a $75 million mortgage on the lease and is paying $3.5 million a year in interest, so they want this off their hands bad. If Oxford does accept the buyout, not only would RioCan profit, but Fairweather/INC would get a portion of that payment as well since they signed the lease. But so far, Oxford is not budging, and INC says the store will be open no later than May of next year if nothing happens.
The cherry on top is that there are no other buyers who want the Yorkdale space. On top of that, the Yorkdale Bay space needs a good $9.3 million in immediate repairs, and $16.9 million over three years to upgrade the roof and elevators.
This is a pretty wild scenario, but it does give us answers as to what exactly was going on here for the past few months. Les Ailes isn't making a comeback in a typical sense, but instead they are being used as a bargaining chip so RioCan can do away with the mortgage they have on the Bay lease. Basically, buy your lease back from us, or we'll let these guys set up shop for chump change and use the anchor space to sell cheap crap and affect your image.
This is just me editorializing, but if you're Oxford, on top of all the other stakes here, you probably don't want cheap crap that Fairweather's selling in the same mall as Holts, Dior, Louis Vuitton... at least not in that three-floor anchor capacity. Yorkdale has a reputation to uphold of selling high-scale, fashion-forward clothing. On the other hand, INC does not sell quality. I'm not sure if this reputation has anything to do with RioCan playing hardball, but to me, it's certainly not helping the mall's image, and the article kind of hints at that.
Oxford Properties, RioCan in showdown over future of Bay store at Toronto’s Yorkdale Mall
If Oxford refuses buyout offer, RioCan threatens renting space to downmarket fashion store Les Ailes de la Mode
www.theglobeandmail.com
Un-paywalled: https://archive.ph/8xGzR
Remember a while back when we discovered Les Ailes de la Mode (owned by Fairweather) got The Bay's Yorkdale lease in August? Well, apparently this is RioCan's doing, and what a story this is.
RioCan wants Oxford (Yorkdale's owner) to buy out their 135-year Yorkdale Bay lease for at least $75 million, and Oxford has refused. Because of this, RioCan is threatening to rent out the space to Les Ailes De La Mode (dormant department chain banner owned by Fairweather/INC) for $1 million a year. Now, that rent is far, far below the rent Hudson's Bay was paying, and they're playing serious hardball. RioCan has a $75 million mortgage on the lease and is paying $3.5 million a year in interest, so they want this off their hands bad. If Oxford does accept the buyout, not only would RioCan profit, but Fairweather/INC would get a portion of that payment as well since they signed the lease. But so far, Oxford is not budging, and INC says the store will be open no later than May of next year if nothing happens.
The cherry on top is that there are no other buyers who want the Yorkdale space. On top of that, the Yorkdale Bay space needs a good $9.3 million in immediate repairs, and $16.9 million over three years to upgrade the roof and elevators.
This is a pretty wild scenario, but it does give us answers as to what exactly was going on here for the past few months. Les Ailes isn't making a comeback in a typical sense, but instead they are being used as a bargaining chip so RioCan can do away with the mortgage they have on the Bay lease. Basically, buy your lease back from us, or we'll let these guys set up shop for chump change and use the anchor space to sell cheap crap and affect your image.
This is just me editorializing, but if you're Oxford, on top of all the other stakes here, you probably don't want cheap crap that Fairweather's selling in the same mall as Holts, Dior, Louis Vuitton... at least not in that three-floor anchor capacity. Yorkdale has a reputation to uphold of selling high-scale, fashion-forward clothing. On the other hand, INC does not sell quality. I'm not sure if this reputation has anything to do with RioCan playing hardball, but to me, it's certainly not helping the mall's image, and the article kind of hints at that.
Amare
Senior Member
Wow in all my years, i've never heard of something like this before.New drama, fresh off the heels of Ruby losing her battle:
Oxford Properties, RioCan in showdown over future of Bay store at Toronto’s Yorkdale Mall
If Oxford refuses buyout offer, RioCan threatens renting space to downmarket fashion store Les Ailes de la Mode
Un-paywalled: https://archive.ph/8xGzR
Remember a while back when we discovered Les Ailes de la Mode (owned by Fairweather) got The Bay's Yorkdale lease in August? Well, apparently this is RioCan's doing, and what a story this is.
RioCan wants Oxford (Yorkdale's owner) to buy out their 135-year Yorkdale Bay lease for at least $75 million, and Oxford has refused. Because of this, RioCan is threatening to rent out the space to Les Ailes De La Mode (dormant department chain banner owned by Fairweather/INC) for $1 million a year. Now, that rent is far, far below the rent Hudson's Bay was paying, and they're playing serious hardball. RioCan has a $75 million mortgage on the lease and is paying $3.5 million a year in interest, so they want this off their hands bad. If Oxford does accept the buyout, not only would RioCan profit, but Fairweather/INC would get a portion of that payment as well since they signed the lease. But so far, Oxford is not budging, and INC says the store will be open no later than May of next year if nothing happens.
The cherry on top is that there are no other buyers who want the Yorkdale space. On top of that, the Yorkdale Bay space needs a good $9.3 million in immediate repairs, and $16.9 million over three years to upgrade the roof and elevators.
This is a pretty wild scenario, but it does give us answers as to what exactly was going on here for the past few months. Les Ailes isn't making a comeback in a typical sense, but instead they are being used as a bargaining chip so RioCan can do away with the mortgage they have on the Bay lease. Basically, buy your lease back from us, or we'll let these guys set up shop for chump change and use the anchor space to sell cheap crap and affect your image.
This is just me editorializing, but if you're Oxford, on top of all the other stakes here, you probably don't want cheap crap that Fairweather's selling in the same mall as Holts, Dior, Louis Vuitton... at least not in that three-floor anchor capacity. Yorkdale has a reputation to uphold of selling high-scale, fashion-forward clothing. On the other hand, INC does not sell quality. I'm not sure if this reputation has anything to do with RioCan playing hardball, but to me, it's certainly not helping the mall's image, and the article kind of hints at that.
This is completely wild.
RGB_11
Active Member
So far, it looks (to me) like, if Rio Can does not get paid at least 75 million by Oxford properties (owner of Yorkdale)
a Zellers store is going in...IC style.
a Zellers store is going in...IC style.
matrix
Active Member
I'm younger than most folks here and even I know this is crazy! I still have no idea why RioCan even did a joint venture with The Bay in the first place... Hindsight is 20/20... But they must be very, very desperate to be playing with Oxford like this. This is hardball of the highest degree. Seems at this point, even our own established retail landlords are joining in on the headlines with Ruby Liu.
It's worth mentioning the source is anonymous but close to the situation. But I believe it, given that we already knew the sublease was signed in August, and there was a few questions about what the fresh hell Les Ailes/Fairweather was doing.
The article and lease do mention Les Ailes, and not Zellers. However, from candid photos from inside the Zellers store in Edmonton, it just seems like a bunch of cheap crappy Fairweather/IC/Stockhomme clothing sitting on racks, and I would assume Les Ailes would be the same deal. If I were Oxford, I would be concerned.
RGB_11
Active Member
Okay, but then, what's up with Les Ailes de la Mode website? https://lesailes.com/listing
matrix
Active Member
INC most likely hasn't set up the site yet. Zellers is already set in stone, but Les Ailes isn't. The store opening is dependent on what happens with Oxford.
RGB_11
Active Member
I will admit "Les Zel de la Mod" (as it would be said in English) does sound to be a classier name than Zellers, but a name alone won't help Yorkdale. Something better than IC clothing is needed also.
Northern Light
Superstar
Interesting to see the above come out...........
There may be other shoes to drop...........
There may be other shoes to drop...........