[Richard White]

Not correct. They absolutely could tear down the Bay at STC and leave the mall otherwise in tact.

However, there is no such plan, nor is there likely to be.

Good point.

They did that at Morningside Mall when they tore down the Woolco space.

It worked but it was a death knell for the mall.

 

[TossYourJacket]

Good point.

They did that at Morningside Mall when they tore down the Woolco space.

It worked but it was a death knell for the mall.

Yeah from a structural engineering perspective, you can generally remove anchor store boxes from a mall (and there are many cases where this has happened, and in fact there is one case in America where the mall was demolished except for the anchor stores!), especially since they are usually on the edge of the main structure. That said, yeah, maybe not always the best thing for the mall business-wise.

 

[stevensontransit]

It is but they have to be careful.

Decathalon is closing and the former bay store at STC is a 3.5 floor store.

They have alot of empty and soon to be empty space. If they fill it, they probably want to ensure it stays filled.

True. You can’t rush opening new stores. It’s best to do it slowly and gradually.

 

[nightstreak]

@stevensontransit and @nightstreak

You need to recall that HBC is not the only owner of the flagship Oxford Leases..... they were packaged as a JV with Riocan.

***

@TossYourJacket is on point about Queen Street.

That's not to say there might not be a signature tenant at some point...........but Queen needs a LOT of work.....it would soak Ruby's entire Cap-X from my understanding.

No tenant is going to want to take all that on, probably even with free rent, let alone at what CF would like to get from it.

There will be plans for the space........but they will take time.

This is the most exciting part of this entire event. I liked The Bay and I mourn its demise but objectively, that store was a black hole the size of an entire city block that sucked the life out of an important part of downtown Toronto. I'm looking forward to seeing that space better activated and bringing life to all of its sides, particularly Richmond which The Bay had its back turned to.

With a return to office work now in full swing, much of the building's upper floors can be converted to office space. The 1st and 2nd floor could be retail and hospitality and the lower level can be partitioned into PATH style stores along corridors from The Sheraton and from Bay-Adelaide Centre.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

With a return to office work now in full swing, much of the building's upper floors can be converted to office space. The 1st and 2nd floor could be retail and hospitality and the lower level can be partitioned into PATH style stores along corridors from The Sheraton and from Bay-Adelaide Centre.

Is it time for a major new Toronto office development?

UPDATED WITH OXFORD COMMENT: Toronto’s office availability rate is at 20.1%, and leasing rates have softened during 2025. But Avison Young's Q2 2025 office market report notes conditions might soon be ripe for a major new downtown office tower.

renx.ca

There will probably be demand for office in this location. That is probably the most likely outcome for the upper levels.

 

[stevensontransit]

Is it time for a major new Toronto office development?

UPDATED WITH OXFORD COMMENT: Toronto’s office availability rate is at 20.1%, and leasing rates have softened during 2025. But Avison Young's Q2 2025 office market report notes conditions might soon be ripe for a major new downtown office tower.

renx.ca

There will probably be demand for office in this location. That is probably the most likely outcome for the upper levels.

Yeah an office would be a good replacement over the former bay location at Yonge and Queen. No need for another anchor retail.

 

[torontowest91]

lol how do we get a cheesecake factory into part of the bay downtown??? haha

I could see a restaurant or two coming along yonge street

 

[Richard White]

lol how do we get a cheesecake factory into part of the bay downtown??? haha

I could see a restaurant or two coming along yonge street

Honestly, the Bay on Queen needs a revamp.

It needs a destination store like Harrods, LIberty, etc which at this moment Canada does not have. That is where the Bay would have been a good fit

Had they closed all but that store, they could have made it a boutique!

 

[nightstreak]

Honestly, the Bay on Queen needs a revamp.

It needs a destination store like Harrods, LIberty, etc which at this moment Canada does not have. That is where the Bay would have been a good fit

Had they closed all but that store, they could have made it a boutique!

Canadian Tire would be dumb not to take advantage of the Buy Canada movement and the nostalgia over Hudson''s Bay. A single boutique store on maybe 1 to 2 floors selling HBC Stripes along with Canadian memorabilia, and an integrated Atmosphere store-within-a-store for camping and other outdoor with a strong Canadiana branding. That's it. That would do well in a tourist prime location like this.

The one caveat is that Queen Street will be a construction site until 2029 (or beyond) and it would be hard to make anything work at street level until construction is over. Maybe by then, the Buy Canada and nostalgia factors will have died down.

 

[RGB_11]

Canadian Tire would be dumb not to take advantage of the Buy Canada movement and the nostalgia over Hudson''s Bay. A single boutique store on maybe 1 to 2 floors selling HBC Stripes along with Canadian memorabilia, and an integrated Atmosphere store-within-a-store for camping and other outdoor with a strong Canadiana branding. That's it. That would do well in a tourist prime location like this.

The one caveat is that Queen Street will be a construction site until 2029 (or beyond) and it would be hard to make anything work at street level until construction is over. Maybe by then, the Buy Canada and nostalgia factors will have died down.

Thing is, before the permanent end to Bay, CT already planned investments in larger Mark's stores. Dufferin Mall, to name one. I'm not saying they intended to launch Mark's department stores, but it's not a bad idea.
(Dufferin mall Mark's is keeping their current store, while also taking over a former Globo shoe store next door)
With plans in place to be larger store(s) it could be that now there is room for Mark's department stores...but only as a possibility, not necessarily as a fact...hopefully a larger Mark's in Dufferin mall won't fail. (so they can decide what they are doing from there...)

 

[officedweller]

I find it hard to believe that nobody bid on Queen Street and Yorkdale flagships. CF and Oxford probably insisted on buying them back. There’s no way those leases worth tens of millions are going to simply be disclaimed for $0.00 return to creditors.

One more day to find out. Tomorrow is the deadline.

One puzzler is that Ivanhoe Cambridge is buying back the Burnaby BC Metropolis at Metrotown Hudson's Bay lease for a measly $20,000.

 

[nightstreak]

One puzzler is that Ivanhoe Cambridge is buying back the Burnaby BC Metropolis at Metrotown Hudson's Bay lease for a measly $20,000.

It may have a high cure cost, meaning that it might have hundreds of thousands or even millions in back rent that the leasee would have to pay to bring its acquired lease into good standing.

 

[officedweller]

Canadian Tire would be dumb not to take advantage of the Buy Canada movement and the nostalgia over Hudson''s Bay.

Go to TheBay.com and Canadian Tire has already taken over with a 'coming soon'.

 

[nightstreak]

Go to TheBay.com and Canadian Tire has already taken over with a 'coming soon'.

Yes, I mentioned it a couple of pages back:

Canadian Tire's purchase has closed and it now officially owns TheBay.com and all of The Hudson's Bay Company's branding.

View attachment 669808

"We're just getting started, and there's lots more to come. Stay tuned".

I'd say this is encouraging messaging but this is Canadian Tire and we've seen how poorly they can be at execution. Exhibit A: Canadian Tire Bay and Dundas.

Thing is, before the permanent end to Bay, CT already planned investments in larger Mark's stores. Dufferin Mall, to name one. I'm not saying they intended to launch Mark's department stores, but it's not a bad idea.
(Dufferin mall Mark's is keeping their current store, while also taking over a former Globo shoe store next door)
With plans in place to be larger store(s) it could be that now there is room for Mark's department stores...but only as a possibility, not necessarily as a fact...hopefully a larger Mark's in Dufferin mall won't fail. (so they can decide what they are doing from there...)

The strategy:

1. Canadian Tire returns to its roots as a hardware, car supply and outdoor store, freeing up floor space to focus on the type of merchandise its customers expect to find there.

2. Hudson's Bay takes Canadian Tire's housewares, sells Marks and Hudson North clothing and opens Canadian Tire Corp. to the Beauty space.

3. It's not clear if Zellers is a part of the IP acquisition because HBC let the trademark lapse, but if CT can use it, they can get into grocery and affordable goods i.e. Walmart.

Most malls can support all three of these, with a common loyalty points program driving traffic to all of CT's properties.

 

[matrix]

3. It's not clear if Zellers is a part of the IP acquisition because HBC let the trademark lapse, but if CT can use it, they can get into grocery and affordable goods i.e. Walmart.

I remember reading somewhere that Zellers was not a part of that deal strangely enough. I will have to see later where I read that so grain of salt of course, but the idea surprises me