[evandyk]

The number of homeless people keeps going up because the cost of housing relative to earnings of people at low income levels keeps going up. It's that simple.

 

[DSCToronto]

The number of homeless people keeps going up because the cost of housing relative to earnings of people at low income levels keeps going up. It's that simple.

Yes! Though there will probably always be some people who actually prefer to 'camp out', homelessness can be solved by building more homes that are available at affordable prices and even some of the 'hard-core' homeless can be enticed to move to them if the housing is associated with services that help them cope with the responsibilities of having a real home.

 

[hawc]

The problem is WAY deeper than just the cost of housing.

It's not the clean, simple direct correlation you think it is.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The number of homeless people keeps going up because the cost of housing relative to earnings of people at low income levels keeps going up. It's that simple.

I expect mental illness and addiction, as well as our federal government granting asylum but not providing shelter to newcomers has a good part to play. Our mayor claims that a large portion of our emergency shelters are taken up by refugees - who should be housed by the federal government who admitted them. And yes, we know of precariously-housed working people, but the bigger issue is housing people with with NO incomes.

The homeless problem and the services that support and enable it should be spread across the province, not concentrated to downtown east Toronto. We normal, sane, sober and housed residents want the same life as someone in Forest Hill, Lawrence Park or the Beaches. Every Ontarian should be expected to carry or experience the burden of the province's homeless problem, rather than sitting in your Forest Hill home, pretending the issue is just for the downtown east slums.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I do know quite a few people who work in the area, including fairly highly compensated executives of non-profits, and every single one of them would give up their salary tomorrow if it meant nobody was living in a park or on the street.

I call rubbish on that. Once money changes hand, it's your business and livelihood. Ask any paramedic if they would gladly give up their salary if it meant nobody needed emergency medical attention, or any firefighter if they would resign if it meant their services were never needed. Or would an insurance adjustor quit if it meant no one would have to make a claim after a property theft? Of course not. Like it or not, there are many among us who gladly make good livings off of the misfortune of others, including at the non-profits.

 

[evandyk]

The problem is WAY deeper than just the cost of housing.

It's not the clean, simple direct correlation you think it is.

There is a small core of people who are extremely difficult to house because of mental health issues. That number is relatively stable across time and across jurisdictions. The number of homeless people varies widely across time and across jurisdictions, and that variation is quite closely linked with the cost of housing relative to low-paying jobs.

 

[evandyk]

I call rubbish on that. Once money changes hand, it's your business and livelihood. Ask any paramedic if they would gladly give up their salary if it meant nobody needed emergency medical attention, or any firefighter if they would resign if it meant their services were never needed. Or would an insurance adjustor quit if it meant no one would have to make a claim. Of course not. Like it or not, there are many among us who make good livings off of the misfortune of others.

Well, then I don't think you know the people working in those organizations. They are extremely mission-driven. You did name four specific people, claiming to know what they think, but I guess you actually don't?

 

[Towered]

I expect mental illness and addiction, as well as our federal government granting asylum but not providing shelter to newcomers has a good part to play. Our mayor claims that a large portion of our emergency shelters are taken up by refugees - who should be housed by the federal government who admitted them. And yes, we know of precariously-housed working people, but the bigger issue is housing people with with NO incomes.

The homeless problem and the services that support and enable it should be spread across the province, not concentrated to downtown east Toronto. We normal, sane, sober and housed residents want the same life as someone in Forest Hill, Lawrence Park or the Beaches. Every Ontarian should be expected to carry or experience the burden of the province's homeless problem, rather than sitting in your Forest Hill home, pretending the issue is just for the downtown east slums.

It should be spread around. But seemingly every time there's a proposal to do so, there's an outcry from local residents and then government backs off. A shelter was proposed several years ago right at Royal York and Eglinton, a very waspy, affluent neighbourhood, and apparently Doug himself kiboshed it immediately once he was made aware.

 

[T3G]

Yeah that's what we've been saying for the last 20 years and it ain't making a dent.

Probably because, instead of taking material steps to address those issues, we haven't done diddly squat about them. If anything, the problem gets worse and worse every year.

We've tried nothing and we're all out of solutions.

 

[Admiral Beez]

You did name four specific people, claiming to know what they think, but I guess you actually don't?

I did not name anyone, but rather the salaries of the executives of the non-profits. I don't know them, or their names, and that's not important. I don't have to know the name of the head of Canada Life Insurance to know that they just the same, profit from the misery and misfortune of others.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Probably because, instead of taking material steps to address those issues, we haven't done diddly squat about them. If anything, the problem gets worse and worse every year. We've tried nothing and we're all out of solutions.

My solution.... enact a Constitutional amendment that adds a Right to Housing. Then we treat the homeless issue like a natural disaster, as if there was great fire or earthquake, with everyone who needs housing being collected by emergency services and given immediate shelter. Meanwhile a massive rebuilding effort begins, led by the Feds and Provinces to create permanent housing for everyone who needs it, with the residents paying what they can. It all sounds fanciful, but if Toronto burned down tomorrow, that's what we would be doing. We're a rich country, with the 9th highest GDP in the world, with tons of empty space, with towns that are slowly depopulating. There is no reason we cannot house everyone.

According to ChatGPT, the total federal, provincial, territorial and municipal revenue of Canada is $1.085 trillion. According to this report there are about 250,000 people homeless in Canada. If allocated just $50k to housing each one, we'd need about $13 billion, or about 1.2% of total national government revenue. We might say that $50k won't build housing for anyone, but in addition to that expense we can include the savings from government otherwise providing the homeless with emergency shelters, funding the homeless industrial complex and non-profits, emergency medical care, policing, courts and prisons, plus recouping of lost productivity.

Treat homelessness like a natural disaster, like a tsunami wiped out housing across the GTA just as winter approaches. We'd find housing for everyone in that case.

 

[T3G]

My solution.... enact a Constitutional amendment that adds a Right to Housing. Then we treat the homeless issue like a natural disaster, as if there was great fire or earthquake, with everyone who needs housing being collected by emergency services and given immediate shelter. Meanwhile a massive rebuilding effort begins, led my the Feds and Provinces to create permanent housing for everyone who needs it, with the residents paying what they can. It all sounds fanciful, but if Toronto burned down tomorrow, that's what we would be doing. We're a rich country, with the 9th highest GDP in the world, with tons of empty space, with towns that are slowly depopulating. There is no reason we cannot house everyone.

Absolutely agreed.

After COVID, when multiple levels of government were able to act quickly, decisively, and take unprecedented drastic action on a declared emergency, I have zero patience or understanding for any kind of hand-wringing, hemming and hawing, etc, on the part of those who are supposed to be serving society, and who get paid well to do it.

 

[gabe]

The problem is WAY deeper than just the cost of housing.

It's not the clean, simple direct correlation you think it is.

Yep. Housing will NEVER end homelessness. Sure some people are just down on their luck and need a hand to get back and giving them a roof over their head is a good start. But the majority of homeless people will choose drugs over housing any day. Just look around, so many on the streets are so far beyond making their own decisions for safety and wellness. And shelters don't allow drug use, so they won't go. Especially if they are getting free tents and food from different out reach services.

 

[nightstreak]

What draws troubled folks to Yonge-Dundas Square? I used to think that it was associated with the Toronto Health building at Victoria but that's now been closed for several weeks. Every time I walk through the intersection, there are mentally ill people roaming around and homeless people sleeping on the benches around the square. Someone was camped out in front of the H&M doors just now. Do those doors even open anymore?

The City Councillor for the area does not seem interested in reestablishing any type of social order at the intersection and instead defers the "solution" to the larger unsolvable problem of homelessness, mental health and drug use in the city. If we're waiting for those social ills to get solved, then we might as well just give up the intersection — which it appears we have.

We need to treat people with compassion and we need to keep a part of the city frequented by millions of people safe, clean and orderly. These are not mutually exclusive and they're both necessary, but the city has given up on one of them.

 

[Admiral Beez]

What draws troubled folks to Yonge-Dundas Square? I

The city’s and charities’ disproportionate use of downtown east for its homeless shelters. That’s what.

Shelters

If you need emergency shelter, call 311 or Central Intake at 416-338-4766 for assistance. Shelters provide temporary accommodation and related support services that assist people to move into housing. All locations are staffed 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and provide wrap-around supports...

www.toronto.ca

Here are all of the city’s men’s only emergency shelters. Note, how there’s almost nothing outside of downtown.

Note how many men’s shelters are within easy walk to Yonge-Dundas Square.