[afransen]

Ontario is also the largest subnational governments in North America, with better revenue tools at is disposal than US states. Ontario can support more debt, especially given our federal debt load is much lower. That isn't an argument to spend foolishly on a highway tunnel, I just see that factoid about Ontario being the most indebted subnational government in NA and know that it is somewhat misleading/lacking context.

 

[ShonTron]

I'd honestly take that over this, since at least that's a new alignment that would speed up new trips rather than just "add more lanes" to existing corridor (not to say this is a good idea, but I think it would be preferable).

That being said, how many roadway projects are there that would both be cheaper than this tunnel, and could easily be popular to many people? I know @Northern Light mentioned that the MTO has a laundry list of highway projects, surely those would be quite popular, and would also have the benefit of being more targeted towards parts of the province he could possibly win votes in.

For me personally, something I would love to see happen is a reversal of many of the downloads that occurred under Harris in the 90s. Local politicians who were saddled with the cost of maintaining many of these roadways have basically been begging for the province to take them back since the 90s - and having driven on some of them, they are often in ROUGH shape. That and it could also help fix many OCD destroying discontinuities that confuse those that are unfamiliar with the highways such as Highway 9 in Orangeville, Highway 7 in York/Peel, and many others. You don't even need to reupload all of them, just some of the core ones that are important to intertown/city travel such as Highway 14 would provide so much bang for the buck.

Highway 14? It was a minor highway between Belleville, Sterling, Marmora in its last few decades (Highway 62 took over the southern section). Or do you mean Highway 41, which has a much stronger case for re-assumption?

Highway 9 is definitely the poster child for bad highway downloads. I’d restore a bunch more, including Hwy 3 for a continuous route through Niagara, Hwy 4 between Clinton and Flesherton, Hwy 17 in Eastern Ontario, Hwy 86, and Hwy 121 between Minden and Haliburton.

As for urban segments like Highway 7 in Peel and York, it belongs under local control, but it should have a through designation under a provincial scheme. I don’t think there’s any need though to restore Highway 11 designation to Yonge Street though or bring back Highway 2 in most places.

 

[ARG1]

Highway 14? It was a minor highway between Belleville, Sterling, Marmora in its last few decades (Highway 62 took over the southern section). Or do you mean Highway 41, which has a much stronger case for re-assumption?

You are correct, I accidentally mixed up the two.

As for urban segments like Highway 7 in Peel and York, it belongs under local control, but it should have a through designation under a provincial scheme. I don’t think there’s any need though to restore Highway 11 designation to Yonge Street though or bring back Highway 2 in most places.

Which if I recall correctly was the arrangement prior to the downloads and today with continuing link agreements.

 

[lenaitch]

Ontario is also the largest subnational governments in North America,

I'm curious what metric you are using to base this on.

 

[lenaitch]

Highway 14? It was a minor highway between Belleville, Sterling, Marmora in its last few decades (Highway 62 took over the southern section). Or do you mean Highway 41, which has a much stronger case for re-assumption?

Highway 9 is definitely the poster child for bad highway downloads. I’d restore a bunch more, including Hwy 3 for a continuous route through Niagara, Hwy 4 between Clinton and Flesherton, Hwy 17 in Eastern Ontario, Hwy 86, and Hwy 121 between Minden and Haliburton.

As for urban segments like Highway 7 in Peel and York, it belongs under local control, but it should have a through designation under a provincial scheme. I don’t think there’s any need though to restore Highway 11 designation to Yonge Street though or bring back Highway 2 in most places.

Keep in mind that the downloading was accompanied by uploading (welfare if I recall?) and the exchange was supposed to be revenue-neutral. A stated criteria was that the usage of a particular piece of highway had evolved (devolved?) to more local usage than connective. I don't think continuity of either use or designation was ever a consideration and probably concerns them even less now.

 

[micheal_can]

Couple of notes:
1. Yes, the study MTO procured included "reviewing all options along the corridor""



2. There is precedence for similar scale urban decked freeways - I think this process could work for between the 427 and 409 for example, which may limit the tunnel to only be east of the 409. Dallas completed a decked collector-express system about a decade ago on I-635:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

View attachment 683313

View attachment 683314

H-1 on Hawaii is decked. IIRC they have one way on one level and the other way the other level. It is above another highway.

 

[RapidTransit]

I'd honestly take that over this, since at least that's a new alignment that would speed up new trips rather than just "add more lanes" to existing corridor (not to say this is a good idea, but I think it would be preferable).

I know there's sarcasm with these responses. But there was the proposed Richview Express way. If I remember correctly, either Rob Ford or Doug Ford use to live near Scarlett and Eglinton. Same intersection where the proposed Richview was suppose to pass by. Then you had the Spadina expressway and/or Hwy 400 proposed to go south to the Gardiner. So technically close to what you mentioned.

Obviously Doug Ford isn't going to propose a highway near his old neighborhood. Which in itself is ironic.

Im positive Doug and MTO is fully aware of the options for 401 besides the tunnel. But that's not what they care about. This tunnel comes off as a relief, which is really a front or mask, and in reality it's helping out lobbyist that want a tunnel and want the contract to do it. If it were truly about relief, transit would have been proposed, and other alternatives for the 401 like Richview expressway would have been brought back. And I'm sure a funding agreement would have been easier for Carney to partner with.

Unfortunately even with transit, the amount of expropriation that's needed for an alternative expressway within Toronto would kill Doug chances of re-election.

Doug should focus on GO expansion, even bring back the GO ALRT project. He can absolutely be successful with that project.

 

[micheal_can]

I know there's sarcasm with these responses. But there was the proposed Richview Express way. If I remember correctly, either Rob Ford or Doug Ford use to live near Scarlett and Eglinton. Same intersection where the proposed Richview was suppose to pass by. Then you had the Spadina expressway and/or Hwy 400 proposed to go south to the Gardiner. So technically close to what you mentioned.

Obviously Doug Ford isn't going to propose a highway near his old neighborhood. Which in itself is ironic.

Im positive Doug and MTO is fully aware of the options for 401 besides the tunnel. But that's not what they care about. This tunnel comes off as a relief, which is really a front or mask, and in reality it's helping out lobbyist that want a tunnel and want the contract to do it. If it were truly about relief, transit would have been proposed, and other alternatives for the 401 like Richview expressway would have been brought back. And I'm sure a funding agreement would have been easier for Carney to partner with.

Unfortunately even with transit, the amount of expropriation that's needed for an alternative expressway within Toronto would kill Doug chances of re-election.

Doug should focus on GO expansion, even bring back the GO ALRT project. He can absolutely be successful with that project.

He could also push for HSR West,

 

[sixrings]

Just spend 100 billion and complete sheppard subway from STC to the airport. Fund DRL North and west to the airport. Extend bloor to SQ1. Actually make 15 minute all way GO transit. Buy out the Milton line. Make every streetcar lane a ROW. And toll the 401/ 427 / dvp / Gardiner because I might have spent 200 billion.

 

[afransen]

I'm curious what metric you are using to base this on.

Budgets. Only a few US states are larger. Meant to say "one of".