[micheal_can]

Seems like a bad reason to build a train line somewhere where it is very pedestrian hostile and difficult to build interchanges with other transit modes.

The cost to build that transit line in such a way to mitigate all those issues is much lower than the cost to build the tunnel. You are right, the area around the 401is not ideal for mass transit, but it could be. For that matter, you could deck the entire highway and build affordable and geared to income housing on top of it and solve the housing crisis in Toronto.

 

[afransen]

The cost to build that transit line in such a way to mitigate all those issues is much lower than the cost to build the tunnel. You are right, the area around the 401is not ideal for mass transit, but it could be. For that matter, you could deck the entire highway and build affordable and geared to income housing on top of it and solve the housing crisis in Toronto.

We could build a moon city, too. Why don't we do the cheaper and more practical options.

 

[urbancog]

I'd like to see the feasibility study recommend an express rail line (something like London's Elizabeth Line) that only stops where it connects to other rail services, and not recommend a vehicular tunnel.

There are millions of origin-destination pairs for which the only currently feasible mobility mode is driving on the 401 (unless you're prepared to pay 407 tolls). For example from the western suburbs to employment centres along the 404/DVP, or from eastern suburbs to the airport employment lands.

Line 5 will help moving folks from Mid-town Toronto to the airport, and from Brampton to the offices at Laird/Don Valley but there will still be large areas north of Eg. that are unserved by fast E-W transit. Give people a practical way to move across the GTA, outside of Mid-town or Downtown Toronto and they'll be happy not to drive.

 

[micheal_can]

We could build a moon city, too. Why don't we do the cheaper and more practical options.

I am not advocating for it. If anything,I am listing things that are slightly less absurd that would be slightly better than a 10 lane tunnel under the 401. Even extending the Sheppard Line east along Highway 2 to Clarington and west to Pearson, along with extending Line 2 along Burnamthorpe to Oakville Would be better than a 401 tunnel.

 

[DirectionNorth]

I'd like to see the feasibility study recommend an express rail line (something like London's Elizabeth Line) that only stops where it connects to other rail services, and not recommend a vehicular tunnel.

There are millions of origin-destination pairs for which the only currently feasible mobility mode is driving on the 401 (unless you're prepared to pay 407 tolls). For example from the western suburbs to employment centres along the 404/DVP, or from eastern suburbs to the airport employment lands.

Line 5 will help moving folks from Mid-town Toronto to the airport, and from Brampton to the offices at Laird/Don Valley but there will still be large areas north of Eg. that are unserved by fast E-W transit. Give people a practical way to move across the GTA, outside of Mid-town or Downtown Toronto and they'll be happy not to drive.
View attachment 655308

I can think of a fast crosstown transit project that is rumoured to be short on money. Actually, I can think of more than one (Sheppard), but one came to mind in particular over an express bypass, which would have low ridership because of dispersed employment and leisure destination.

If N billions somehow magically appear for a “transit option,” to spend that on bypass line before 2070 would be a waste. If you’re listening Doug, please send the cheque in an envelope marked “GO Expansion” to Metrolinx HQ. Thanks.

 

[micheal_can]

I can think of a fast crosstown transit project that is rumoured to be short on money. Actually, I can think of more than one (Sheppard), but one came to mind in particular over an express bypass, which would have low ridership because of dispersed employment and leisure destination.

If N billions somehow magically appear for a “transit option,” to spend that on bypass line before 2070 would be a waste. If you’re listening Doug, please send the cheque in an envelope marked “GO Expansion” to Metrolinx HQ. Thanks.

The current Line 2extension of 7.8km is going to cost about $5.5 billion. That is about $1.4 billion a km.
For $55 billion we could get almost 40 km of new subways.

Wasn't Ford campaigning on "Subways, Subways, Subways" when he first wanted to be Premier? Maybe he should go back to that.

 

[afransen]

The current Line 2extension of 7.8km is going to cost about $5.5 billion. That is about $1.4 billion a km.
For $55 billion we could get almost 40 km of new subways.

Wasn't Ford campaigning on "Subways, Subways, Subways" when he first wanted to be Premier? Maybe he should go back to that.

I think you inverted the calculation. You meant $700m/km.

 

[micheal_can]

I think you inverted the calculation. You meant $700m/km.

That brings it close to 80km.
Sometimes I mess up the math. I don't mind being corrected on my math.

 

[urbancog]

Neither a Sheppard-Wilson subway nor the Crosstown LRT match the concept I'm suggesting. I support having a Sheppard-Wilson subway but it would stop too often to deliver the travel times needed to get folks making longer journeys off the 401. An electrified Mid-town GO line would be similar but it's too far south. The point I'm making is a $40B express subway would be more cost efficient than a $90B vehicle tunnel and would lower the collective stress level of GTA residents instead of adding stress by making them drive through a congested tunnel.

 

[micheal_can]

Neither a Sheppard-Wilson subway nor the Crosstown LRT match the concept I'm suggesting. I support having a Sheppard-Wilson subway but it would stop too often to deliver the travel times needed to get folks making longer journeys off the 401. An electrified Mid-town GO line would be similar but it's too far south. The point I'm making is a $40B express subway would be more cost efficient than a $90B vehicle tunnel and would lower the collective stress level of GTA residents instead of adding stress by making them drive through a congested tunnel.

I think most of us can come up with ideas to spend this on that would move people better.

 

[afransen]

Neither a Sheppard-Wilson subway nor the Crosstown LRT match the concept I'm suggesting. I support having a Sheppard-Wilson subway but it would stop too often to deliver the travel times needed to get folks making longer journeys off the 401. An electrified Mid-town GO line would be similar but it's too far south. The point I'm making is a $40B express subway would be more cost efficient than a $90B vehicle tunnel and would lower the collective stress level of GTA residents instead of adding stress by making them drive through a congested tunnel.

Seoul is a much larger city, but it is definitely thinking much bigger in terms of stitching the region together with high speed transit.

They are building 3 lines of high speed (180 kph max, 100kph avg) subway that bisect the region. The cost is actually shockingly low, I would say mostly because Korea is better at developing transit projects and also because the number of stations is limited. Something like this would be great for Toronto in the fullness of time, but it relies on having better transit throughout the region for last mile. Maybe something could be done to support intercity HSR along with GO express high speed service, say along the Lakeshore line. Some would need to be tunneled to be straight enough for those kinds of speeds.

Great Train eXpress - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Adjei]

A combination of an extended Sheppard line going east to McCown and west to Sheppard west station, a midtown go line from Mississauga to past Scarborough, and an extension of the high speed rail line to Windsor which the Feds seem to be warming up to would be far better investments than this nonsensical idea.

 

[micheal_can]

A combination of an extended Sheppard line going east to McCown and west to Sheppard west station, a midtown go line from Mississauga to past Scarborough, and an extension of the high speed rail line to Windsor which the Feds seem to be warming up to would be far better investments than this nonsensical idea.

I will add one more thing... more freight rail infrastructure to be able to take trucks off the 401.

 

[afransen]

I will add one more thing... more freight rail infrastructure to be able to take trucks off the 401.

I'm not sure rail is the answer. It seems to me that much of the truck traffic is intra-GTA. How would rail help with this?

Perhaps additional intermodal terminals, so last mile dray movements are shorter distance?

 

[micheal_can]

I'm not sure rail is the answer. It seems to me that much of the truck traffic is intra-GTA. How would rail help with this?

Perhaps additional intermodal terminals, so last mile dray movements are shorter distance?

Take the garbage trucks on the 401, if they were all on rail the amount of trucks would drop.

Another thing is the JITD or Just in time delivery that many auto plants rely on. If our freight lines had the space, they could go back to rail, further lowing the truck traffic.

It is not about removing all trucks, but removing those that could be removed, but is not practical due to how the railways run their freight.