[nfitz]

A shuttle bus providing connections from Aldershot is likely the best option, yes.

I'd think a shuttle bus to Hamilton would be the best option. And I'd assume something is planned, given that Porter is planning a bus to Montreal Metropolitian airport.

Obviously the demand is no where near rail level. But would it be worth at least protecting a 4-km connecting corridor, eastwards (somewhere between Airport Road and English Church Road) towards the old CN alignment from Hamilton to Caledonia. I think there's enough of the alignment left to run a service to Hamilton Centre GO (the old CP Hamilton station). Obviously it wouldn't be of use for decades - but might be useful in the 2100s or something.

 

[Sunnyside]

as in VIA rail? The closest rail line to YHM is over 15km away. There is no easy rail connections here and likely never will be.

Not to sidetrack, but airport-rail access was a lot easier a prospect when the Sub to Hagarsville was in place. Would really compliment the AEGD…

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

There are two abandoned railtracks near YHM, though I don't know what condition they are in.

I'm not familiar enough with Hamilton. Would a N/S LRT or BRT between the GO stations and the airport along James St/West 5th St be feasible? Or is the mountain to steep for LRT cars to climb?

**EDIT**

I think this will be the first time that there will be an airline operating out of both YYZ and YHM, with equal brand levels of service. Westjet started out at YHM, but moved to YYZ and only returned with it's Low cost Swoop brand later. Porter will be treating YHM on an equal footing as YYZ which should be interesting..

 

[Tim MacDonald]

There are two abandoned railtracks near YHM, though I don't know what condition they are in.

I'm not familiar enough with Hamilton. Would a N/S LRT or BRT between the GO stations and the airport along James St/West 5th St be feasible? Or is the mountain to steep for LRT cars to climb?

**EDIT**

I think this will be the first time that there will be an airline operating out of both YYZ and YHM, with equal brand levels of service. Westjet started out at YHM, but moved to YYZ and only returned with it's Low cost Swoop brand later. Porter will be treating YHM on an equal footing as YYZ which should be interesting..

Greyhound Air, operated by Kelowna Flight craft, did it in 1996-1997. They ran a Winnipeg scissor hub with about six 727s. I remember they were badly delayed starting up since i had to repeatedly take them out of the YYZ ramp schedule. Flew them once out to YVR and it was an ok operation.

 

[ShonTron]

There are two abandoned railtracks near YHM, though I don't know what condition they are in.

I'm not familiar enough with Hamilton. Would a N/S LRT or BRT between the GO stations and the airport along James St/West 5th St be feasible? Or is the mountain to steep for LRT cars to climb?

**EDIT**

I think this will be the first time that there will be an airline operating out of both YYZ and YHM, with equal brand levels of service. Westjet started out at YHM, but moved to YYZ and only returned with it's Low cost Swoop brand later. Porter will be treating YHM on an equal footing as YYZ which should be interesting..

I find it strange that we’re talking about heavy rail airport links when Hamilton will have fewer daily flights than Abbotsford or Timmins, never mind Halifax or Edmonton (which both only have limited frequency express bus service.)

The two nearest abandoned rail lines are the old CN Hagersville Sub, which has been disconnected from the CN mainline since the 1990s; it followed Ferguson Avenue south through Downtown Hamilton and up the Escarpment on what is now a rail trail. (A new connection to the CPKC line is possible to serve Hamilton GO Centre). It would require a very expensive new grade separation across the Lincoln Alexander Parkway (the highway was built several years after the rail abandonment), as well as a lengthy spur across to reach the airport.

Not going to happen.

The even less likely alternative is the old TH&B route to Brantford which was also abandoned around 1990. That’s also now a rail trail with a few bridges since removed. It would require an even longer spur to reach YHM, including a grade separation across Highway 403.

Neither railway had passenger service for the last few decades before abandonment; both spent their last years as local freight connections between Hamilton, Brantford, and Nanticoke.

 

[rdaner]

Thanks for info! I was musing about this as the airport serves a much larger area than just Hamilton. Also a rail link would attract a lot of users plus employees and also development because this is Ontario!

 

[just east of the creek]

I can see VIA being a nice addition here with a station either nearby or in the terminal.

Cannot see it happening in the near (far?) future, but as others have noted, planning for it now would be an excellent idea, and protecting a transit corridor to link up with ? line would make so much sense.

 

[Sauga89]

There are two abandoned railtracks near YHM, though I don't know what condition they are in.

I'm not familiar enough with Hamilton. Would a N/S LRT or BRT between the GO stations and the airport along James St/West 5th St be feasible? Or is the mountain to steep for LRT cars to climb?

**EDIT**

I think this will be the first time that there will be an airline operating out of both YYZ and YHM, with equal brand levels of service. Westjet started out at YHM, but moved to YYZ and only returned with it's Low cost Swoop brand later. Porter will be treating YHM on an equal footing as YYZ which should be interesting..

I find it strange that we’re talking about heavy rail airport links when Hamilton will have fewer daily flights than Abbotsford or Timmins, never mind Halifax or Edmonton (which both only have limited frequency express bus service.)

The two nearest abandoned rail lines are the old CN Hagersville Sub, which has been disconnected from the CN mainline since the 1990s; it followed Ferguson Avenue south through Downtown Hamilton and up the Escarpment on what is now a rail trail. (A new connection to the CPKC line is possible to serve Hamilton GO Centre). It would require a very expensive new grade separation across the Lincoln Alexander Parkway (the highway was built several years after the rail abandonment), as well as a lengthy spur across to reach the airport.

Not going to happen.

The even less likely alternative is the old TH&B route to Brantford which was also abandoned around 1990. That’s also now a rail trail with a few bridges since removed. It would require an even longer spur to reach YHM, including a grade separation across Highway 403.

Neither railway had passenger service for the last few decades before abandonment; both spent their last years as local freight connections between Hamilton, Brantford, and Nanticoke.

Not that it's in any way a viable route for an airport link, but on the subject of abandoned railroads in the area, there was also the Brantford and Hamilton Electric Railway. Much of the right of way through Ancaster has been built over though.

I believe the current long-term plan to serve the airport is a BRT or LRT along Upper James Street.

 

[Sunnyside]

I find it strange that we’re talking about heavy rail airport links when Hamilton will have fewer daily flights than Abbotsford or Timmins, never mind Halifax or Edmonton (which both only have limited frequency express bus service.)

The two nearest abandoned rail lines are the old CN Hagersville Sub, which has been disconnected from the CN mainline since the 1990s; it followed Ferguson Avenue south through Downtown Hamilton and up the Escarpment on what is now a rail trail. (A new connection to the CPKC line is possible to serve Hamilton GO Centre). It would require a very expensive new grade separation across the Lincoln Alexander Parkway (the highway was built several years after the rail abandonment), as well as a lengthy spur across to reach the airport.

Not going to happen.

The even less likely alternative is the old TH&B route to Brantford which was also abandoned around 1990. That’s also now a rail trail with a few bridges since removed. It would require an even longer spur to reach YHM, including a grade separation across Highway 403.

Neither railway had passenger service for the last few decades before abandonment; both spent their last years as local freight connections between Hamilton, Brantford, and Nanticoke.

I actually did not bring this up for the sake of just passengers.... but I am going to be bringing up the Hagarsville Sub below.

There are two abandoned railtracks near YHM, though I don't know what condition they are in.

I'm not familiar enough with Hamilton. Would a N/S LRT or BRT between the GO stations and the airport along James St/West 5th St be feasible? Or is the mountain to steep for LRT cars to climb?

You are speaking about the A-line. After Hamilton's East/West LRT (the "B-Line") the James-Upper James corridor is next on the list. But I personally don't think the case for that is super strong all the way to the airport yet.

Not that it's in any way a viable route for an airport link, but on the subject of abandoned railroads in the area, there was also the Brantford and Hamilton Electric Railway. Much of the right of way through Ancaster has been built over though.

I believe the current long-term plan to serve the airport is a BRT or LRT along Upper James Street.

....This is definitely not what would be repurposed, if anything ever were. We can muse about bringing back old rail lines, but the case for Radials is far harder to make. Like with most, the corridor is basically gone, and its too urbanized to be worth bringing back.

***

No, I wanted to suggest bringing back part of the Hagarsville Sub for freight use. Passengers could be a side benefit- perhaps its good enough to supplant any A-line past say Rymal, but I digress.

The bread and butter of YHM is cargo, and the City is betting on this. Its a rare spot where greenfield land is plentiful. The only problem is proximity- its not near the industry at the lake, and it's about as far from the industrial heart of the GTHA (YYZ) as one can get while still within the region. There is only passable highway access, and while some plans might fix that, maybe we could do even better with rail instead.

Before I get into it, this thing would need to be about 50% grade-seperated. Not cheap, but I have a feeling some folks could clue me in if I'm going too far. This is way more than one bridge though.

So heres my idea... Run a line from the Grimsby Sub up the RHVP and rejoining the Hagarsville alignment near the Linc/RHVP bend. Run south; I don't know if air-rail direct intermodal is a thing, but that would determine the location and size of an airport spur, hence the splits shown. IIRC, the spur to Pearson for the UPX isfar more curvacious than the Kitchener Line, so it would be easier to only run small trains here too.

My piece de la resistance is once again suggesting to bring back CN's beach track as a bridge (ideally forgetting about expanding the Skyway) but that's off-topic. If people are interested I can move this to the fantasy thread.

Anyhow, I figure the case is you can get some of that heavy industry/intermodal stuff out of the core, and grow the amount of industry while doing it- for the airport and RRs. If we can get these guys on board, making the case for a passenger track (or two, grade permitting...) should be marginal.

 

[ShonTron]

I actually did not bring this up for the sake of just passengers.... but I am going to be bringing up the Hagarsville Sub below.


You are speaking about the A-line. After Hamilton's East/West LRT (the "B-Line") the James-Upper James corridor is next on the list. But I personally don't think the case for that is super strong all the way to the airport yet.


....This is definitely not what would be repurposed, if anything ever were. We can muse about bringing back old rail lines, but the case for Radials is far harder to make. Like with most, the corridor is basically gone, and its too urbanized to be worth bringing back.

***

No, I wanted to suggest bringing back part of the Hagarsville Sub for freight use. Passengers could be a side benefit- perhaps its good enough to supplant any A-line past say Rymal, but I digress.

The bread and butter of YHM is cargo, and the City is betting on this. Its a rare spot where greenfield land is plentiful. The only problem is proximity- its not near the industry at the lake, and it's about as far from the industrial heart of the GTHA (YYZ) as one can get while still within the region. There is only passable highway access, and while some plans might fix that, maybe we could do even better with rail instead.

Before I get into it, this thing would need to be about 50% grade-seperated. Not cheap, but I have a feeling some folks could clue me in if I'm going too far. This is way more than one bridge though.

So heres my idea... Run a line from the Grimsby Sub up the RHVP and rejoining the Hagarsville alignment near the Linc/RHVP bend. Run south; I don't know if air-rail direct intermodal is a thing, but that would determine the location and size of an airport spur, hence the splits shown. IIRC, the spur to Pearson for the UPX isfar more curvacious than the Kitchener Line, so it would be easier to only run small trains here too.

View attachment 629897

My piece de la resistance is once again suggesting to bring back CN's beach track as a bridge (ideally forgetting about expanding the Skyway) but that's off-topic. If people are interested I can move this to the fantasy thread.

Anyhow, I figure the case is you can get some of that heavy industry/intermodal stuff out of the core, and grow the amount of industry while doing it- for the airport and RRs. If we can get these guys on board, making the case for a passenger track (or two, grade permitting...) should be marginal.

Very little, if any, air cargo is transferred to rail in North America. Air cargo is generally high value, lower volume stuff that the railways have moved completely away from. Think parcels, courier documents, and mail, flowers and high-end produce, high-value industrial equipment and electronics, and specialized parts for final assembly.

The railways focus is on container cargo (marine-rail-truck), bulk goods (grain, oil), as well as large lumber shipments, automobiles, and chemicals, along with some specialized freight moves like heavy equipment. Anything coming off a plane and going on a train would be transshipped to a rail transfer facility.

 

[lenaitch]

If I had a buck for everyone who said "but the flights were always full" I'd be a rich man. I've lost track of the number of airlines that I worked with that had very high load factors yet still ceased ops.

Terminal three was hardly empty during the period from 2001 to 2004. Don't forget that a bunch of the ex CAIL A320s were rebranded into Tango starting late 2001 and operated out of T3. There was a time where AC operated out of all three Terminals. C3 had swallowed Royal and canjet n 2000 but were still booming until they went bankrupt in November of 2001 and not long after Michel Leblanc surfaced again with his MD83 and later on F100 based Jetsgo before they spectacularly crashed and burned March break weekend in 2005. So, no T3 wasn't a ghost town and there was no "lucrative deal" with the GTAA but there was some space available.

But there was a shift in play at westjet because of the Cail/AC merger. The market was in in flux and they quickly realized an opening. That opening wasn't at Hamilton though. The expansion opportunities that they saw, particularly in the US, and Caribbean as well as the insane decision to enter the Bermuda triangle profitability killer with the Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal thing was not something that was going to be handled at Hamilton. It couldn't simply because the throughput of that facility just wouldn't allow it. How many check-in positions are there? Is there US pre-clearance? How many gates? Those were all questions they asked and knew the answers to. Even if they wanted to stay at YHM, there is no way that facility was going to run the operation that they were planning and they certainly weren't going to be pumping $1b into a new terminal. Once the large tranche of 737-7CTs and -8s were coming on property, there was no way they weren't going to shift their focus to Pearson. And this really is the rub here. @ShonTron said it best a couple of posts up. The timings suck. People want choice and if they need to be somewhere outside of the two limited times that porter offers, they're going to YYZ.

No, the schedule is never solely designed based on fleet utilization. Marketing and scheduling work hand in hand. If you plot your flights just on best aircraft utilization you'll get killed on a lot of routes. To me it looks like a connection play between Halifax and points west. Fleet utilization at Porter - at least with the E-jets - seems quite poor over their entire network.

Porter's growth strategy reminds me of target starting from scratch in Canada and trying to open more than a hundred stores in a year. They've got way too many new tails coming that need to find work.

Is there actually a true facility expansion in terms of terminal space and footprint or is it just the new facade and adding boarding bridges?

Love,

-your friend from Mississauga.

How to become a millionaire owing an airline . . .

Start out being a billionaire.

 

[Sunnyside]

Very little, if any, air cargo is transferred to rail in North America. Air cargo is generally high value, lower volume stuff that the railways have moved completely away from. Think parcels, courier documents, and mail, flowers and high-end produce, high-value industrial equipment and electronics, and specialized parts for final assembly.

The railways focus is on container cargo (marine-rail-truck), bulk goods (grain, oil), as well as large lumber shipments, automobiles, and chemicals, along with some specialized freight moves like heavy equipment. Anything coming off a plane and going on a train would be transshipped to a rail transfer facility.

The airport question is one thing. Fair enough that air to train doesn't happen. Still, if you can make a case to CN/CP for a facility in general, you'll get 75% of the way there. The spur to YHM for passengers is a marginal expense at that point, especially if it's still greenfield.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

A shuttle bus providing connections from Aldershot is likely the best option, yes.

It's 4 flights a day at the end of the day too - even a somewhat-frequent GO bus is going to be overkill on service.

Longer term if YHM starts building actual significant service levels, I could see an extension of some of the 41 GO bus trips to Caledonia via YHM and a connection to the Hamilton LRT at Main/King.

Agree re Aldershot connection. In terms of flight frequency, I expect Porter to add many new flights from Hamilton over 2025 and 2026. They still have about 40 additional jets on order, and need routes for them to fly. I’d hope to see a few flights - at least during the winter months down to their Florida destinations or even Phoenix.

They’ve done an excellent job building out Ottawa as one of their hubs. With Hamilton becoming a hub, maybe we see some other partner airlines joining the airport to connect with Porter flights.

 

[CapitalSeven]

If Oshawa can have a gondola through what is a flatish dowtown and a gentle slope after that, why not Hamilton? Google Earth shows a 400-foot rise between West Harbour and the top of the escarpment. It's a technology match made in Metrolinx heaven. Doug Ford needs to get on this and promise a GOndola for the Hammer.

 

[Sauga89]

....This is definitely not what would be repurposed, if anything ever were. We can muse about bringing back old rail lines, but the case for Radials is far harder to make. Like with most, the corridor is basically gone, and its too urbanized to be worth bringing back.

I did say it wasn't a viable option. To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that any part of B&H electric railway be rebuilt. Rather, I was adding it to the list of abandoned local railway lines which would not work for an airport link, since @ShonTron hadn't mentioned it.