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- Thread starter drum118
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ScreamingViking
New Member
dowlingm
Senior Member
Deferring work rather than run more Saturday Milton service - wouldn’t want people to start getting used to having it 
smallspy
Senior Member
And it turns out that I was dead wrong about this.
This is quite the risky game that they are playing by doing this.
Dan
generalcanada
Senior Member
any details on what exactly they would have been doing this weekend to give that sentiment?
Richard White
Senior Member
Even the City of Toronto is deferring work on the DVP due to the ALDS. They know that traffic will be a ****show regardless of the Jays.
Metrolinx and their partners also likely realized that all those people coming to town for the game will cause headaches.
It's better for everyone if they defer the work rather than to bring traffic to a standstill.
crs1026
Superstar
Can't agree more !.
I'm as pumped as anyone about the Jays, but.... it would be useful to know what work got cancelled, when it will be resumed, what penalties/costs were incurred by deferring, and how it affects critical path timing for service improvements. And were any of the work items safety related or tied to TSO's.
On the surface, it may be a feel-good moment for people wanting to go downtown, but there are real costs and consequences when work is deferred at the last minute. And this kind of thing drives internal ML culture in exactly the wrong direction.
- Paul
Northern Light
Superstar
@smallspy knows that. LOL
I don't know if he knows all that though.
You know what this comes down to again, don't you? Of course you do! Lack of Transparency.
There's no way to fairly evaluate the decision as we have next to no information in the open.
Because Mx has a reputation at this point for being late, over budget, serious questions about project choices/change orders, and contract management and design; and are consistently opaque, they get no benefit of the doubt, nor do they deserve any.
dowlingm
Senior Member
The switch around will also impact VIA who will have blocked reservations to Oakville because it expected to be Windsor-London-Brantford-Aldershot service to be diverted up the Halton Sub, and presumably will have to void bookings on whatever makeup date Metrolinx lands on. For the majority of the people in the city who don't track projects as closely as this board, it will likely be seen as the correct call.
sixrings
Senior Member
You’re ok with the dvp stop construction working so that your Scarborough people can get down to the game with no atmosphere but you’re not ok with people hoping the Milton line gets a train running to catch the game?
Miltonrider
New Member
I have ridden the last couple of Saturday's that there was Milton train service. Sept 13th for the Argo’s game and last Saturday (27th) to go bike riding. Both weekends seemed to have a large amount of people getting on (at Milton at least). On the return trip getting off in Milton (the 13th), I heard a few conversations from people saying how convenient this was compared to driving to Oakville. My first thought was why would you drive to Oakville. Bronte is closer (straight shot down 25) and has much more available parking on weekends compared to Oakville. My second thought was how much busier it would have been if it was more publicly announced. I only found out, when I was on the GO website helping a family member get downtown from St. Catharines during the track closure. I’m thinking there where probably a few people who took the GO bus from Oakville/Clarkson to Toronto, not knowing there was Milton train service.
Secondly, I’m wondering if they could take a non-revenue run and make it an in-service run. While biking, I stopped at Milton GO for a water break and hopefully catch a freight come through. This was on Sept 20th around 1pm. A CP rail auto rack train came through and came to a stop. At the same time, a GO train pulled into the station track. The doors did not open. I checked the website, and it showed no service. The freight then pulled up, allowing the GO train to access the main line. I’m thinking this was a nonrevenue run to get the train to Mimico yard for servicing. This would mean that either that train set, or another would have to come back to Milton to complete the morning rush on Monday. Someone up stream mentioned that a possible reason for no weekend Milton service is a lack of crews. Obviously, there was a crew to take the train to Mimico and bring it back, so couldn’t this have been a revenue run? Same with CP rail, obviously allowing GO to run “out of service trains” to / from Milton.
After seeing crews available the last few Saturdays, not to mention those available for special services such as Caribana, the Santa Claus parade, & New Years Eve, and that CP rail does allow weekend runs (and has the capacity), I strictly believe the reason for no weekend service on Milton is lack of government action. We could have weekend service tomorrow if Metrolinx was willing to pay the crews (or hire more) to work a few runs on weekends. I intend to write my MPP (again) and the premier (again), though I expect I will get the same general response. I really wanted to make Ford fest this year in Milton and hopefully ask Doug if we would get expanded Milton service Yes or No.
On a side note, are rail crews allowed to stop their freight train for coffee? The same freight I mentioned above backed up and stopped after the GO train left, so as not to block the two crossings on either end of the station (5th line & Martin St). A crew member walked from the back of the train, through the Milton platform and into the superstore plaza. I was curious so I waited around. About 15 minutes later he came walking back with a coffee and proceed to walk to the front of the train (which was at Martin St.). The whole coffee break took almost an hour (from backing up to going forward). My question is: are rail crews aloud to stop their train to get a coffee, or do they have to ask permission from rail traffic control? Would that go against the crew if they request coffee stops?
As an aside, the amount of walking that crew member did for a coffee certainly got his steps in.
Secondly, I’m wondering if they could take a non-revenue run and make it an in-service run. While biking, I stopped at Milton GO for a water break and hopefully catch a freight come through. This was on Sept 20th around 1pm. A CP rail auto rack train came through and came to a stop. At the same time, a GO train pulled into the station track. The doors did not open. I checked the website, and it showed no service. The freight then pulled up, allowing the GO train to access the main line. I’m thinking this was a nonrevenue run to get the train to Mimico yard for servicing. This would mean that either that train set, or another would have to come back to Milton to complete the morning rush on Monday. Someone up stream mentioned that a possible reason for no weekend Milton service is a lack of crews. Obviously, there was a crew to take the train to Mimico and bring it back, so couldn’t this have been a revenue run? Same with CP rail, obviously allowing GO to run “out of service trains” to / from Milton.
After seeing crews available the last few Saturdays, not to mention those available for special services such as Caribana, the Santa Claus parade, & New Years Eve, and that CP rail does allow weekend runs (and has the capacity), I strictly believe the reason for no weekend service on Milton is lack of government action. We could have weekend service tomorrow if Metrolinx was willing to pay the crews (or hire more) to work a few runs on weekends. I intend to write my MPP (again) and the premier (again), though I expect I will get the same general response. I really wanted to make Ford fest this year in Milton and hopefully ask Doug if we would get expanded Milton service Yes or No.
On a side note, are rail crews allowed to stop their freight train for coffee? The same freight I mentioned above backed up and stopped after the GO train left, so as not to block the two crossings on either end of the station (5th line & Martin St). A crew member walked from the back of the train, through the Milton platform and into the superstore plaza. I was curious so I waited around. About 15 minutes later he came walking back with a coffee and proceed to walk to the front of the train (which was at Martin St.). The whole coffee break took almost an hour (from backing up to going forward). My question is: are rail crews aloud to stop their train to get a coffee, or do they have to ask permission from rail traffic control? Would that go against the crew if they request coffee stops?
As an aside, the amount of walking that crew member did for a coffee certainly got his steps in.
sixrings
Senior Member
Go train service was a cheaper way to move people versus expanding the highways that were full. I guess now we decide if we need trains based on how clogged the highways are and how much drivers complain. Just like how drivers complained about the speed cams. As a result if you live in these places but don’t want to drive you’re fd because the government isn’t motivated to run trains which cost them money.
LNahid2000
Senior Member
15 minute service instead of 30 minute service on weekend afternoons/evenings. People don't like waiting and with 15 minute service, you don't really need to even think about the schedule.
Miltonrider
New Member
You've got a point. My counter would be that works if you don't mind standing or have no large item such as a bike. I find at times in the summer, especially if multiple events are on (Jays, FC, Concert) that the majority of the time, the trains are full comming out of Burlington. Several times I have had to run with my bike down the platform at Bronte to find an open coach spot for my bike. Then when the train pulls into Oakville, the platform is crush load. If I went to Oakville, I would never be able to get my bike on the train. There was a time this summer where I wanted to get off at Exhibition, but the coach was so full after leaving Port Credit there was no way for me to get off the train until Union. If they really want to operate like that, then keep 15 minute service to Oakville but the 30 minute trains should bypass Oakville and Port Credit. That would speed up the trains and prevent people that got on before Oakville from being crushed and able to get off at Mimico or Long Branch. I htink I wil lmake that suggestion to Metrolinx as well in lieu of weekend service on Milton.
crs1026
Superstar
Don't assume that because a crew took a train to Mimico once, there is a crew available to run the same train every Saturday at the same time. Equipment moves are often ad hoc. That move might have had to wait until any number of other tasks got done.
But lack of crews is really not the reason that there is no weekend service to Milton. The reason is that CP has control over the line, and any "special" service is at their discretion. No reasonable amount of money will make them accept trains they don't want as a permanent operation.
The reality is, a Milton service that is properly scaled requires additional track - and grade separations. Squeezing in a few bare bones runs is not helpful because demand will quickly outpace capacity. There really has to be a full, properly scaled solution.
That expansion could easily be funded if, say, drivers in Ontario paid an annual fee to renew their license plate sticker, but I digress.
I can't be sure which train you saw, but it demonstrates the reality of how that line operates. Autorack trains don't wait at Milton unless there is congestion up the line. Was it a westbound? Possibly congestion at Guelph Jct or Wolverton. Or a work block. The point being, there are very few places where a freight train can stop and hold without blocking crossings and conflicting with GO.. Putting more GO on that line is a complication CPKC doesn't need.
The solution is more track, and it will be expensive. Unquestionably, the demand is there. But don't underestimate the scope.
- Paul
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