[anb]

In the meantime, the Milton/Lisgar/Meadowvale branches of the 21 should probably go to Bramalea GO via Highway 407.

This is an idea that I’ve also thought of a lot. As Bramalea is well connected to a lot of key places in the GTA with many direct bus routes, it also helps connect Milton to even more destinations, and helps with the flexibility of where in Toronto the rider is heading to.

Going to Bramalea could possibly also be a quicker trip for some. Going North York/Scarborough? take the 41 to Highway 407 station or to Consumers Rd or STC. Going Midtown or Downtown? take the 36 to Yorkdale/York Mills or the GO Train depending on the location.

Maybe last weekend was special but in the early afternoon I saw 23 people board a 25K and 11 people board a 29 bus at the Kipling Bus Terminal.

Both the 25K and 29 are a duplication of service alongside MiWay and the Transitway from Kipling to Winston Churchill so that is probably a huge factor in why there aren’t much riders boarding. It also costs more to use GO between those 2 points than to just use the Miway 109 bus at a flat fare. If the 21 went to Kipling, there is the fact that it would be serving Milton GO line stations so the ridership pattern would be completely different.

 

[ShonTron]

This is an idea that I’ve also thought of a lot. As Bramalea is well connected to a lot of key places in the GTA with many direct bus routes, it also helps connect Milton to even more destinations, and helps with the flexibility of where in Toronto the rider is heading to.

Going to Bramalea could possibly also be a quicker trip for some. Going North York/Scarborough? take the 41 to Highway 407 station or to Consumers Rd or STC. Going Midtown or Downtown? take the 36 to Yorkdale/York Mills or the GO Train depending on the location.

Yeah. There isn’t an easy way to get from Milton to the airport either. A connection at Bramalea also gets you a direct bus to Pearson Airport or to Humber College.

 

[LNahid2000]

It's kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation - if you add insufficient padding to the schedule, you run the risk of the passengers missing the train. The real question we need to be asking is why - for the love of God, why - we still haven't gotten back 15 minute service on Lakeshore West...

This is true, but I'd rather have a 90% chance of a less than 10 minute wait than an almost 100% chance of a 30 minute wait.

 

[reaperexpress]

Both the 25K and 29 are a duplication of service alongside MiWay and the Transitway from Kipling to Winston Churchill so that is probably a huge factor in why there aren’t much riders boarding. It also costs more to use GO between those 2 points than to just use the Miway 109 bus at a flat fare.

Yes technically the GO bus is more expensive but the fare difference between GO and MiWay is only $0.30. I just take whatever shows up first, and if it's a GO bus I'm happy to pay the extra 30 cents to get much more comfortable seats and a slightly faster trip.

For a trip Square One - Kipling - Union on Presto:
Miway+TTC costs $3.40 (MiWay ticket + free transfer)
GO+TTC costs $3.70 (GO fare + free transfer)

Going the other way it's a $0.35 difference since TTC costs $3.35.

 

[reaperexpress]

This is true, but I'd rather have a 90% chance of a less than 10 minute wait than an almost 100% chance of a 30 minute wait.

Most people don't want a trip that has a 10% chance of missed connection. That's too risky for them. They want a predictable trip that gets them to their destination at the time the schedule said it would. Basically the transfer time should be however much is needed to make sure that the bus always makes the connection unless there is a highly exceptional delay.

 

[EnviroTO]

Most people don't prefer that. They want a predictable trip that gets them to their destination at the time the schedule said it would. Basically the transfer time should be however much is needed to make sure that the bus always makes the connection unless there is a highly exceptional delay.

This is true, but I'd rather have a 90% chance of a less than 10 minute wait than an almost 100% chance of a 30 minute wait.

I'm between these two statements. I'd rather have a 90% chance of a less than 10 minute wait than an almost 100% chance of a 30 minute wait... but there is a limit to how late something can be. I would think 30 minutes late is too late for any local trip... even at a rare 1% of the time because for a local service it means being late to work, late to an event, etc. For the 10% chance of being late the late time acceptable for an intercity probably extends to 1h to 1h30, for long haul maybe 2-3h.

 

[reaperexpress]

I'm between these two statements. I'd rather have a 90% chance of a less than 10 minute wait than an almost 100% chance of a 30 minute wait... but there is a limit to how late something can be. I would think 30 minutes late is too late for any local trip... even at a rare 1% of the time because for a local service it means being late to work, late to an event, etc. For the 10% chance of being late the late time acceptable for an intercity probably extends to 1h to 1h30, for long haul maybe 2-3h.

I also prefer that, but the fact is that most people don't think like us. We are much more willing to take risks and adjust plans in real time to optimize our trips than the average person because we have a much more comprehensive understanding of how transit works. The average person loses their mind when their trip doesn't go to plan. They have no concept of the level of risk in a given transfer, they just expect it to work and if it doesn't it will ruin their day and they will curse the transit agency till the end of time. This makes transit planners extremely risk-averse when planning transfer times.

 

[anb]

Yes technically the GO bus is more expensive but the fare difference between GO and MiWay is only $0.30. I just take whatever shows up first, and if it's a GO bus I'm happy to pay the extra 30 cents to get much more comfortable seats and a slightly faster trip.

For a trip Square One - Kipling - Union on Presto:
Miway+TTC costs $3.40 (MiWay ticket + free transfer)
GO+TTC costs $3.70 (GO fare + free transfer)

Going the other way it's a $0.35 difference since TTC costs $3.35.

I am aware of GO’s base fare just being a couple cents more and you get a 3 hour transfer instead of 2 which makes it more beneficial, but that’s actually not the case with what I was making with my previous post, talking about the lower ridership with the GO bus routes at Kipling.

This is how much it actually costs to do the whole Transitway route on GO without transferring to another bus at Square One. A whole $2.37 extra compared to just taking MiWay’s 109 route added with the free transfer to TTC all for $3.40. One would question why the entirety of GO in Mississauga wouldn’t all just be $3.70 to begin with but this might contribute huge as to why there aren’t many riders leaving or departing from Kipling.

 

[reaperexpress]

I am aware of GO’s base fare just being a couple cents more and you get a 3 hour transfer instead of 2 which makes it more beneficial, but that’s actually not the case with what I was making with my previous post, talking about the lower ridership with the GO bus routes at Kipling.

This is how much it actually costs to do the whole Transitway route on GO without transferring to another bus at Square One. A whole $2.37 extra compared to just taking MiWay’s 109 route added with the free transfer to TTC all for $3.40. One would question why the entirety of GO in Mississauga wouldn’t all just be $3.70 to begin with but this might contribute huge as to why there aren’t many riders leaving or departing from Kipling.

View attachment 675116

I can see why someone travelling specifically from Winston Churchill or Erin Mills would avoid GO due to price, but that is not where most of the ridership on the 109 comes from. I'm pretty sure Square One alone has more ridership to Kipling than Erin Mills and Winston Churchill combined.

The free transfer is irrelevant for the comparison because GO and MiWay both give free transfers to the TTC.

 

[turbanplanner]

How often does freight traffic delay, the trains?

I’m assuming it’s a train coming from Niagara? Also, why would one train have speed restrictions and the others wouldn’t?

 

[E•MO•TION]

How often does freight traffic delay, the trains?

On occasion.

I’m assuming it’s a train coming from Niagara?

CNE extra from Oakville, no explanation.

Also, why would one train have speed restrictions and the others wouldn’t?

There could be a number of reasons depending on the nature of the speed restriction. However I'm inclined to believe the reason provided for is just a blanket explanation for numerous contributing factors, a track speed restriction being one, of course.

 

[dowlingm]

I’m assuming it’s a train coming from Niagara? Also, why would one train have speed restrictions and the others wouldn’t?

My guess would be that the trains are not all being routed over the same physical track, so that the last train is being routed over a section which has one track with construction or other reasons for a speed restriction while something like a VIA overtakes on the full speed track?

 

[crs1026]

^Speed restrictions are imposed when a track defect is discovered, and the defect is not so serious as to require shutting down the track altogether. It may take time to assemble the right people, work equipment, and material to make the repair, and the repair may need a period of time, possibly at night or at the weekend. If it is safe to operate at low speed, the track is kept in service with a Temporary Slow Order until it can be fixed.

Word of mouth tells me that some new slow orders happened on the Oakville Sub this week.

As to the freight interference, the Oakville Sub continues to see local roadswitchers between Oakville and Aldershot and between Aldershot and Mimico. Not all run at night. Depending on their routing needs, time of day, and small hiccups, conflicts do happen sometimes. The RTC's do their best to keep everything moving, but stuff happens.

As one-of's, nothing to see here. If you see the same pattern of continued lateness due to track or interference, there may be an issue.

- Paul

 

[Metroscapes]

As to the freight interference, the Oakville Sub continues to see local roadswitchers between Oakville and Aldershot and between Aldershot and Mimico. Not all run at night. Depending on their routing needs, time of day, and small hiccups, conflicts do happen sometimes. The RTC's do their best to keep everything moving, but stuff happens.

Could it also have been a conflict near Aldershot that trickled all the way towards Union, hence why they labelled it that way?

 

[crs1026]

Could it also have been a conflict near Aldershot that trickled all the way towards Union, hence why they labelled it that way?

Quite possibly, yes.

- Paul