[trtcttc]

Depending on the form, hydrogen is even more problematic than battery power. And even in its best form, it's beset by many of the same issues as battery electric vehicles.

It's a neat toy, but it's not a practical alternative.

Dan

Could you elaborate on some of the reasons? The two big problems I see with battery is the downtime required for charging. And operationally, if there are issues, unforeseen traffic, etc. all more difficult to manage with a BEV.
Hydrogen has a much higher energy density and can be “refueled” fairly quickly at end or main stations.

 

[smallspy]

Could you elaborate on some of the reasons? The two big problems I see with battery is the downtime required for charging. And operationally, if there are issues, unforeseen traffic, etc. all more difficult to manage with a BEV.
Hydrogen has a much higher energy density and can be “refueled” fairly quickly at end or main stations.

If you are "burning" the hydrogen - using it directly in an internal combustion engine - you require way more of it by volume as it is far less energy-dense than any of the traditional fuels, even the natural gases. Plus, it needs to be liquefied, which means keeping it chilled to something near -150C. Although here, you may not need to worry about batteries. But range becomes a factor, as the volume of your storage is directly tied to how far you can go and the engine size.

If you are using it in a fuel cell, that seems to be a far better option but it's still not really ideal. The storage cylinders are similar than for using in an ICE as the hydrogen doesn't keep to be kept refrigerated, but they still take up a lot of volume and add a lot of weight. And then you still have all of the potential issues of the batteries and an electric drivetrain.

It's not to say that improvements can't be made - hydrogen as a fuel has come a long way in the last 30-ish years. There have been and are fleets of vehicles out in service running entirely on hydrogen. But the drawbacks of it still seem so great that it seems churlish to spent too much time on it when there are far better options available or on the horizon.

Dan

 

[lenaitch]

The pressure vessels themselves add a lot of weight, although I don't know how that compares to a comparable battery pack. As well, the weight is localized to where the tanks are, as compared to battery packs which are typically integral with the body/frame structure, comparatively thin, and help maintain a lower centre of gravity. As it stands now, there is very little in form of fuel supply chain that GO could draw on, and would have to replicate a fueling dock at each of their yards.

 

[smallspy]

The pressure vessels themselves add a lot of weight, although I don't know how that compares to a comparable battery pack. As well, the weight is localized to where the tanks are, as compared to battery packs which are typically integral with the body/frame structure, comparatively thin, and help maintain a lower centre of gravity. As it stands now, there is very little in form of fuel supply chain that GO could draw on, and would have to replicate a fueling dock at each of their yards.

Well, as an example.....

New Flyer built a fleet of 20 hydrogen-hybrid buses for Whistler for use in the 2010 Olympics. The buses had to have an artificially low maximum rider capacity - just a little over the maximum seated capacity - because of the additional weight of the tanks and other hydrogen accessories greatly increased the empty weight of the vehicles.

Dan

 

[RU479]

In other news

207 currently holding at North Bay, likely to be delivered back to Toronto soon.

 

[carloverboy2k]

In other news

207 currently holding at North Bay, likely to be delivered back to Toronto soon.

Hi i'm new to this forum, is there a reason why GO 206 hasn't been flipped around yet. I saw it the other day. Are they trying to break it in or what?

 

[crs1026]

Hi i'm new to this forum, is there a reason why GO 206 hasn't been flipped around yet. I saw it the other day. Are they trying to break it in or what?

Just because the long term plan says the cab cars will be needed down the road, doesn’t mean that there is any short term urgency to putting them in service as such. They are not being rebuilt or released on a just-in-time basis.
When the time is right, they will be turned and deployed as cab cars - but there is no rush.

- Paul

 

[RU479]

So the London Train only had 1 F59 today but still had 10 cars

This marks the first time since 2011 or so that an F59 pulled or pushed a 10 car train by itself

 

[reaperexpress]

So the London Train only had 1 F59 today but still had 10 cars

F59s are certified for up to 10 coaches but it's definitely unusual. A 10 car train with only one F59 must take forever to accelerate.

I assume (hope) it was just an temporary situation rather than a change in policy.

 

[RU479]

I assume (hope) it was just an temporary situation rather than a change in policy.

From what I see it seems to have run this way for atleast a few days now.

 

[Bordercollie]

F59s are certified for up to 10 coaches but it's definitely unusual. A 10 car train with only one F59 must take forever to accelerate.

I assume (hope) it was just an temporary situation rather than a change in policy.

They are probably short on F59's. They used to haul 10 cars all the time before the MP40's came. Plus it's not like the London route is very fast anyway.

 

[RU479]

They are probably short on F59's.

They had 3 F59s (562, 563, 564) on solo 6 car consists before this.

As well as 557-561 and 558-560 doubleheader consists for the London.

559 was acting as a switcher at Willowbrook.

 

[Bordercollie]

They had 3 F59s (562, 563, 564) on solo 6 car consists before this.

As well as 557-561 and 558-560 doubleheader consists for the London.

559 was acting as a switcher at Willowbrook.

Maybe they are short on motive power in general? Maybe more MP40PH'S are in the shop than normal? But I guess considering that all 12 car trains require an MP40 those short trains are the only place they can use the F59PH locomotives.

Regarding the London train they use two locomotives incase of a problem. If one locomotive has an issue and has to come back dead in tow are they expecting the single locomotive to haul 12 cars and the dead loco back to Toronto? I was under the impression that they can only provide HEP and tractive effort for 10 cars. So would they Isolate two cars and disable the HEP to get home? How would that work?

 

[RU479]

Regarding the London train they use two locomotives incase of a problem. If one locomotive has an issue and has to come back dead in tow are they expecting the single locomotive to haul 12 cars and the dead loco back to Toronto? I was under the impression that they can only provide HEP and tractive effort for 10 cars. So would they Isolate two cars and disable the HEP to get home? How would that work?

The London train only has 10 cars so that would not be an issue.

 

[WB62]

The London train only has 10 cars so that would not be an issue.

Can it tow 10 cars and a dead locomotive though?