[WB62]

none. maybe the hitachi units that new york uses but those are full EMUs and the doors are for sure different. however i would imagine that configuring the doors along the platform screen would be quite easy as they are all standard size window wall panels that can be moved around.

No they can’t be easily moved around, the entire thing would need to be removed and replaced.

Because the future of the UP Express station at Union is uncertain, with decommissioning being likely, I don’t think a retrofit like that would be reasonable:

If someone here has actual proof that Metrolinx has lied about electrification for the past 10 years, bring it forward. Flooding this page with assumptions stated as fact is getting real old

Metrolinx is clearly doing everything required for electrification in advance, instead of electrifying existing infrastructure, and then ripping up the newly installed infra to do corridor upgrades.

Theres a half a billion dollar network wide utility relocation project underway to get everything ready for OCS, would be a pretty bad idea to electrify before thats done.

 

[crs1026]

Then they can just borrow a BEV from Alstom, test it and if it works, then go for it.

Sure, Alstom has one sitting around that they aren't using. And it's so generic that ML will immediately know how to maintain and operate it without any preparation or planning or infrastructure. It fits all sizes, too.

Really, you are reaching for straws in a way that is really pointless to continue discussing. Please stop.

- Paul

 

[ssiguy2]

Alstom would be more than happy to supply one for ML knowing that if they are successful, they have a huge contract they are about to be rewarded.

Anyway, if ML is not even interested in seeking any form of alternative regardless of the fact that it wouldn't cost them anything, then this thread might as well be closed. for the next 5 years because NOTHING will happen before then. Torontonians best accept the fact that they are going to be travelling on slow, expensive to run, polluting diesel tanks for at LEAST the next decade and the longer it takes, the vastly more expensive it becomes. GO electrification has become the equivalent to California HSR.

 

[afransen]

Again, have we been publicly given any reason to believe that Ontario would have appetite to adopt a novel electrification technology which has not yet been implemented at any comparable scale? Because if it hasn’t, we should first identify concrete applications elsewhere in the world and discuss their applicability rather than endlessly debating concepts which don’t scale particularly well. I mean, we can of course charge our 12-car trains at every single/major station, but how many loading cycles does that cause annually for each battery and how much productive time do we lose while charging?

Stationary batteries (BESS) are very happy to charge and discharge in the middle of their state of charge curve many thousands of times. Providers like Tesla offer very long warranties. Such a system could also be used to stabilize the grid as a secondary revenue generating use. There are a number of such installations in Ontario.

 

[T3G]

Alstom would be more than happy to supply one for ML knowing that if they are successful, they have a huge contract they are about to be rewarded.

Anyway, if ML is not even interested in seeking any form of alternative regardless of the fact that it wouldn't cost them anything, then this thread might as well be closed. for the next 5 years because NOTHING will happen before then. Torontonians best accept the fact that they are going to be travelling on slow, expensive to run, polluting diesel tanks for at LEAST the next decade and the longer it takes, the vastly more expensive it becomes. GO electrification has become the equivalent to California HSR.

I don't deny the benefits inherent to electrification, but your hyperfixation on it strikes me as rather unhelpful.

As a Milton line user, I care far more about getting some semblance of quality service on the line, even if provided by diesel, over electrification, and I would much rather that we focused the bulk of our attention and resources on introducing 2 way, all day service on every corridor before worrying about electrifying them.

 

[afransen]

No they can’t be easily moved around, the entire thing would need to be removed and replaced.

Because the future of the UP Express station at Union is uncertain, with decommissioning being likely, I don’t think a retrofit like that would be reasonable:
View attachment 680157
View attachment 680158

If someone here has actual proof that Metrolinx has lied about electrification for the past 10 years, bring it forward. Flooding this page with assumptions stated as fact is getting real old

Metrolinx is clearly doing everything required for electrification in advance, instead of electrifying existing infrastructure, and then ripping up the newly installed infra to do corridor upgrades.

Theres a half a billion dollar network wide utility relocation project underway to get everything ready for OCS, would be a pretty bad idea to electrify before thats done.

Why are we a decade in and still doing utility relocations?

 

[sixrings]

I don't deny the benefits inherent to electrification, but your hyperfixation on it strikes me as rather unhelpful.

As a Milton line user, I care far more about getting some semblance of quality service on the line, even if provided by diesel, over electrification, and I would much rather that we focused the bulk of our attention and resources on introducing 2 way, all day service on every corridor before worrying about electrifying them.

Teleporters are going to be built before Milton sees all day GO train service. The plus is that it will be super environmentally friendly.

 

[Urban Sky]

Stationary batteries (BESS) are very happy to charge and discharge in the middle of their state of charge curve many thousands of times. Providers like Tesla offer very long warranties. Such a system could also be used to stabilize the grid as a secondary revenue generating use. There are a number of such installations in Ontario.

Cool story, bro, Certainly an interesting topic for the “General railway discussions” thread, but don’t forget to notify us once such a solution has been implemented on a scale and context remotely relevant for GO and thus the discussion in this thread here…

 

[afransen]

Cool story, bro, but don’t forget to notify us once such a solution has been implemented on a scale and context remotely relevant for GO and thus the discussion here…

Metrolinx can't execute anything, regardless of whether it is demonstrated elsewhere or not. Bro.

 

[Urban Sky]

Metrolinx can't execute anything, regardless of whether it is demonstrated elsewhere or not. Bro.

They are executing a minboggling amount of things, on the GO Corridors and elsewhere. Every single year. You just have to open your eyes, put your fingers out of your ears stop comparing current progress solely against a timeline which just never was feasible, let alone: realistic…

 

[Northern Light]

Above.......are statements that are again veering to the personal.........

Everyone, I know people can be frustrating....... trust me, LOL....

But lets keep this civil, please.

 

[Urban Sky]

Above.......are statements that are again veering to the personal.........

Everyone, I know people can be frustrating....... trust me, LOL....

But lets keep this civil, please.

I rephrased my two last posts to remove an unnecessarily snarky tone. I wholeheartedly believe that fascinating discussions can be had by comparing available or potential electrification technologies, but most of that seems to belong into the “general railway discussions” thread, as it doesn’t really have much relevance for GO and Metrolinx for the foreseeable future…

 

[afransen]

I will also apologize for not contributing to the civility of the discussion. I just think insiders back-patting themselves given the atrocious track record of Metrolinx on project delivery is a bit tone deaf. I think Metrolinx as an org can do with a lot more humility, honesty and transparency.

 

[crs1026]

I will be the first to declare that ML is a failed organization. And I am frustrated by the secrecy and lack of public accountability. And I fully support the transition to electric, be it battery, traditional wires, or whatever.

But.... for the nth time....there is a logical order to completing GO Expansion (in its original and/or best conception)..... and within that sequencing, electrification has to happen later, not sooner.

When we finally see the "sooner" pieces falling into place, then we can ask how soon electrification can be accomplished. Until then, no amount of wishing, hoping, or technology shopping will accelerate it.

- Paul

 

[Urban Sky]

I will also apologize for not contributing to the civility of the discussion. I just think insiders back-patting themselves given the atrocious track record of Metrolinx on project delivery is a bit tone deaf. I think Metrolinx as an org can do with a lot more humility, honesty and transparency.

I understand your frustration over the progress and communication of this megaproject, but I don’t think I qualify (anymore) as an insider for any purpose of this discussion. It is quite possible that I would get just as frustrated at Metrolinx as you if I hadn’t already seen a very similar degree of wildly fluctuating scopes and massive overruns in budget and timelines at virtually any rail transportation network I’m familiar with, many of which are actually seen with envy in this forum. Admittedly, Metrolinx tilts heavily towards the secretive side of the spectrum, but that seems to be more driven by the expectations (and directions) of its provincial masters…