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There's not much more for me to add, everyone has pretty much summed up in great detail what a grand failure GO Expansion has become.

Simply put, Metrolinx needs to be abolished and completely folded. They are a dysfunctional, useless organization who are incapable of delivering a single damn project on-time, on-budget, or to scope.
 
There were too many points made here in the last 12 hours which deserve a counterpoint that I could possibly respond to all of them, but I'll start with this one:

The scandal here, is that this project was announced in ~2015. Ten years on.........there isn't one corridor delivering its promised potential or even a material fraction thereof.
There is a tale of two cities:
  • There is one metropolitan area which has seemingly pulled a "novel" transit project out of a magician's hat in April 2016 and rushed it through so fast that even before a single train has travelled over the majority of the network, it becomes clear that it will escalate the cost and delay the timeframe of essential transportation priorities for no less than two passenger rail networks (commuter and intercity rail) by at least $10 billion and 10 years.
  • And there is another metropolitan area which has spent the last 10 years translating ambition into something like a long-term strategy and adjusted it to match the appetite of its own decision makers.
I can't tell you enough how much I would wish that long-term planning decisions here [i.e., in Montreal] were made by a slow and very flawed public transit agency than by an unaccountable and utterly unqualified pseudo-public-but-de-facto private pension funds.

One of the people quoted in that newspaper article is a former colleague and good friend of mine and I've therefore witnessed from the sidelines over the last few years what a dramatic process it has been to transform this laudable ambition to a somewhat realistic and actionable plan through countless excruciatingly painful trade-offs and compromises. This is a crucial step ALTO has so far avoided at all cost and that is why I'm highly skeptical that we will be able to ride a single electric intercity train 15 years from now (i.e., 25 years after VIA revealed its HFR vision and at least 56 years after the first HSR Study I've been able to locate was published).

I invite everyone dissatisfied with the current frequencies on the Kitchener, Barrie or Stouffville Line to compare them with those 10 years ago. Or to recall how many transfers a simple trip from Union Station to Pearson Airport required prior to this exact month ten years ago. And the reason why the schedules on the Lakeshore lines have not returned to 15-minute headways is that they have yet to receive the massive upgrades which these other three Corridors have already received (just look at all these grade separations between Union and Etobicoke or the Davenport Diamond Grade Separation) and it is simply not feasible to operate 4 trains per hour and direction in addition to the occasional (and often delayed) VIA train while construction is ongoing and modern signaling systems or electrification are absent. Watching years of "enabling works" is frustrating due to the absence of fast results, but they are forming almost literally the foundation of the many improvements which are to come.

***

We are not building from scratch. It is an expansion of the current system. It is not like Toronto never had any rail service and we are starting from new. For this project to take 25 years to get electric trains on some lines is bizarre.
Again, I invite you to find European projects of a comparable ambition to the initial scope of GO Expansion (especially at the time when the contract to ONxpress was awarded) and to compare the evolution of timelines and budgets with what we are trying here. Construction of the City Tunnel in Frankfurt (i.e., the backbone of the Rhein-Main S-Bahn) started in 1969 and it took 21 years before the first S-Bahn train traveled through the entire tunnel to surface at Südbahnhof in 1990, with another branch (to Mühlberg) opening in 1992 (extended towards Offenbach in 1995), while the branch towards Ostbahnhof (the "Nordmainische S-Bahn" towards Hanau) is expected to open in 2031. That's 62 years after construction started and doesn't include the planning phases.

***

There are a few historical titans who have managed such things: for instance the Five Directions Commuting Campaign grade-separated and quad-tracked the main Tokyo lines in the decade from 1965; but Tokyo is Tokyo and Toronto is Toronto; moreover the JNR was the JNR and Metrolinx is Metrolinx. Otherwise, things in Paris and Munich still took multiple decades, right?
The key detail is not that this is Japan, but that that was in the 1960s: Have a look what year the Hokkaido Shinkansen or Chuo Shinkansen started construction (2005 and 2014, respectively) and when they are supposed to be completed (2038 and 2037, i.e. after 33 and 23 years), whereas the Tokaido Shinkansen was built in only 5 years (1959-1964).

***

to meet a 10- year old promise? That's 30 years.
The 10-year old promise has apparently turned out to be undeliverable, so plans had to be refined and timelines revised to better match reality.
How do you justify not restoring the every 15-minute service they suspend in 2020?
The more services you operate, the more challenging it gets to construct "under the moving wheel". DB InfraGO is closing 2-3 major arteries completely for 4-6 months every year to completely rebuild and upgrade the line. Do you prefer that?

***

The public should be very angry. A petition should be started to abolish ML!
I highly recommend Elon Musk for this job. He has a proven track record of destroying decade-old and established organizations with not the slightest understanding of why they exist, what they are actually doing and why they matter or without having spent the faintest thought on what should possibly replace it...
 
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Wild Trillium article. Gotta check my past posting because feel certain most was predicted. Regardless, as long as Prov parties making these GO promises got elected, Metrolinx succeeded.
 
There's not much more for me to add, everyone has pretty much summed up in great detail what a grand failure GO Expansion has become.

Simply put, Metrolinx needs to be abolished and completely folded. They are a dysfunctional, useless organization who are incapable of delivering a single damn project on-time, on-budget, or to scope.
Couldn’t agree more. What a disgrace to this province metrolinx has become
 
There are too many points which deserve a counterpoint than I could possibly respond to, but I'll start with this one:
Thanks for your post. In general, the expansion/RER programme seems like it must do the better part of a century's worth of railway modernisations for a fairly sizable network under the framework of a megaproject. That's, I feel, behind a lot of the conflicting things to be felt.

Incidentally, it's true that the speed of execution on the 5-direction campaign is a thing of the 60s, but it's also a thing of a certain set of conditions then, when growth prospects were enormous and the need for large improvements was every day physically obvious in asphyxiatingly cramped trains. Today's projects face more uncertain growth and people have other options now. Thinking back to Toronto, the demographic growth outlook is significant, but when it comes to trains, and especially all-day two-way, much of the improvement will be making its market. That's physically obvious by the way skyscrapers begin to sprout one by one out of the asphalt and concrete plains around our stations. But it also means that the stakes are not quite so high for the travelling public, I think.
 
In regards to the cancellation of the ONxpress contract, I think what's really bothering people is the fact that electrification isn't going to happen as soon as they thought it would.

People, on Reddit, are responding to this article as if MX isn't doing anything right now.
- South Union station expansion
- LSE widening
- Stouffville & Barrie double tracking
- Confederation station

I'm fairly confident that government officials are talking to CN about diverting their mainline along the 407 in order to open up the Kitchener line entirely for passenger rail.

If all the construction happening right now on the GO network leads to service increases, but without electric trains, isn't that still a win?

I know it's an unpopular opinion here, but I would rather see MX focus on double tracking lines and negotiating with the freight companies to construct bypasses and improve service across the entire network rather than focus all their attention on Lakeshore and turning it into an electric S-bahn line.
 
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If all the construction happening right now on the GO network leads to service increases, but without electric trains, isn't that still a win?

I know it's an unpopular opinion here, but I would rather see MX focus on double tracking lines and negotiating with the freight companies to construct bypasses and improve service across the entire network rather than focus all their attention on Lakeshore and turning it into an electric S-bahn line.

If the promised service increases do actually happen, then I would agree that excessive focus on electrification would be letting perfect be the enemy of good.

But... will they? How long have we been waiting for the restoration of 15 minute service on Lakeshore? How long have they been waffling on projects such as the double tracking of the Stouffville line? How long have they had that obscene 4 hour counter peak hole in the schedule? How long have our "leaders" been making empty promises about *any* kind of expansion to Milton service with not a thing to show for it? Watching this debacle unfold on all fronts has been utterly vexing. We are a deeply unserious continent, and this is the kind of BS that ultimately pushes people to drive. What care I if in some vapourware future Milton gets expanded service, if now and for the foreseeable future it will have anything but, and I have to travel on a bus for almost 2 hours just to get anywhere?
 
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The problem with all this is I would have been thrilled with 30-minute all-day two-way service on Barrie/Kitchener/Stouffville, and now because of the failure of this more ambitious plan, I have very little faith in Metrolinx even delivering on that.
I’m just asking for hourly all day two way service on the Milton line. That’s how low the bar is.
 
Then perhaps we need to import the specialized expertise and labour and tell our engineering and construction industry to get the F out of the way if they can't perform.

AoD
Just the other day on one of these threads there was an idea that even though we don’t build anything hiring engineers is actually beneficial to society.
 
The scandal here, is that this project was announced in ~2015. Ten years on.........there isn't one corridor delivering its promised potential or even a material fraction thereof.



Fair....to a point............except there is no serious work contemplated for R-H in the near term and none started on Milton.............so we're really talking 4 corridors for now. Moreover, the necessary work to get service to the initial promise of 2-way, all-day, every hour or better to the end of non-Lakeshore lines, every 15m or better for most of the Lakeshore corridor, is far from the entire length of each corridor.

So we're not talking about 700km worth of corridor work here, except when we talk electrification.

What people are so exasperated by is not that it may take 20 years to get Milton, 4-tracked, and electrified and delivering every 10M or better service.

Its that there are zero lines currently offering every 15 off-peak service, save and except Lakeshore after 3pm on weekends.

There's simply too little work product accomplished and too little result from that that has.



In this post (yours), you were at 20 years, now 25? I know you understand the importance of consistency.

I get where it will take a while to get full RER in 5 corridors ( I don't see the point in even trying that with R-H).

But I have to say, I'm entirely convinced that another 25 years, making the entire project 35 years is more than ample to deliver the work in question.

Yes people should have reasonable expectations.............but that you're pouring just a bit too much water in the wine.........
Thank you for mentioning Milton. I’m glad you didn’t forget us.
 
I can't tell you enough how much I would wish that long-term planning decisions here were made by a slow and very flawed public transit agency than by an unaccountable and utterly unqualified pseudo-public-but-de-facto private pension funds.

Agree - it could be far worse. I disagree with those who say ML should be abolished. It is the right tool and the best configuration that we have found so far to manage a growing network. And, operationally it works - the trains we have are safe and reliable and well maintained.

We should, however, configure and operate it differently, which might mean changing the Metrolinx Act. The need for transparency is paramount - partly because public oversight will lead to the kind of constructive challenging and debate that is needed to hone plans to a specificity, and then execute with discipline.

I would certainly fire the current ML Board, who have done nothing to oppose or intervene in the current failures. And I would delimit in law the wide latitude that Cabinet has to direct without full disclosure.

When government allows itself to sweep messes under the carpet, it builds a mentality of complacency and undisciplined behaviour. The fix to Metrolinx is oartly about taking power away from government where they have used it badly. The power to suppress public discovery of information is the biggest item here.

I invite everyone dissatisfied with the current frequencies on the Kitchener, Barrie or Stouffville Line to compare them with those 10 years ago. Or to recall how many transfers a simple trip from Union Station to Pearson Airport required prior to this exact month ten years ago. And the reason why the schedules on the Lakeshore lines have not returned to 15-minute headways is that they have yet to receive the massive upgrades which these other three Corridors have already received (just look at all these grade separations between Union and Etobicoke or the Davenport Diamond Grade Separation) and it is simply not feasible to operate 4 trains per hour and direction in addition to the occasional (and often delayed) VIA train while construction is ongoing and modern signaling systems or electrification are absent. Watching years of "enabling works" is frustrating due to the absence of fast results, but they are forming almost literally the foundation of the many improvements which are to come.

I am actually pleased to see ML saying they will bring some functions back in house. This may lead to internal centers of expertise where today ML relies on external advice - the current decision structures do not have the depth of data and expertise to manage such big programs that require a great deal of integration. ML clearly has too many departments and too little skill in integrating their expertise.

I believe ML can be fixed, and GO Expansion can be rerailed.....whereas throwing it away would just create five more years of delay as we grapple with some other model. Perhaps ML is too monolithic and needs to be carved into chunks..... as Ontario Hydro was dismantled a couple of decades ago..... but wholesale abolishment would just prolong the chaos and lack of clarity.

- Paul
 
I am actually pleased to see ML saying they will bring some functions back in house. This may lead to internal centers of expertise where today ML relies on external advice - the current decision structures do not have the depth of data and expertise to manage such big programs that require a great deal of integration. ML clearly has too many departments and too little skill in integrating their expertise.

I believe ML can be fixed, and GO Expansion can be rerailed.....whereas throwing it away would just create five more years of delay as we grapple with some other model. Perhaps ML is too monolithic and needs to be carved into chunks..... as Ontario Hydro was dismantled a couple of decades ago..... but wholesale abolishment would just prolong the chaos and lack of clarity.

- Paul

Have they demonstrated their competency or is it going to be yet another area that is going to legitimize ossified thinking and acting and bake it into the organizational culture (considering the survivors of this current mess, especially).

AoD
 
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Have they demonstrated their competency in this area, or is it going to be yet another area that is going to legitimize ossified thinking and acting?

AoD

i have no illusions about waving a magic wand and everything suddenly falling into place.

Having lived through both successful and unsuccessful organizational transformations - you learn as you go.

But I do think that transparency is the missing ingredient that would be the best base for improvement.

- Paul
 
i have no illusions about waving a magic wand and everything suddenly falling into place.

Having lived through both successful and unsuccessful organizational transformations - you learn as you go.

But I do think that transparency is the missing ingredient that would be the best base for improvement.

- Paul

I am unconvinced that without a clear purge of ML that this can succeed - in fact I am convinced that it will lead to a permanence that is reminiscent of the TTC.

AoD
 

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