[reaperexpress]

The saga is unfortunate........

In the piece a local transit advocate rightly critiques Mx for being secretive and vague on what projects are in the works, when they will be delivered, and what level of service will follow.

We do get this tiny bit at the end of the linked article which isn't generally new to UT'ers, but may still have utility:

View attachment 583215

While Metrolinx is definitely too secretive, especially when it comes to imminent service changes, this is the one case where I think that secrecy is warranted. Revealing details of their plans to the public is sort of like making promises, which could undermine their negotiations with private parties like CN and land owners which could result in rail projects costing more than they already do.

But west of Georgetown or east of Bramalea they already own the line so this argument does not apply there.

 

[crs1026]

While Metrolinx is definitely too secretive, especially when it comes to imminent service changes, this is the one case where I think that secrecy is warranted. Revealing details of their plans to the public is sort of like making promises, which could undermine their negotiations with private parties like CN and land owners which could result in rail projects costing more than they already do.

I can cut ML some slack on this one - except - the negotiations have gone on for so many years (and have been reported as progressing well so many times in ML Board reports) that one loses all trust.

I would have at least expected an announcement that CN and ML had reached agreement on a high level plan. Except - have they?

One wonders if the parties had periods when the parties were some distance apart and negotiations simply stalled. If so, one wonders why there was no lever to force them to reach agreement - in the same way that lots of pressure is exerted (mostly in private) when collective bargaining reaches an impasse. Far to easy to just say nothing and hope for a miracle.

As for west of Georgetown.... one hears enough about weekend work windows that are scheduled but then the results don't come off. Except that, with no agreement or forward motion with CN on the Halton Sub, the improvements to the west are not needed.... the absence of any sense of urgency has spread to the entire ML culture and is pervasive.

- Paul

 

[Northern Light]

While Metrolinx is definitely too secretive, especially when it comes to imminent service changes, this is the one case where I think that secrecy is warranted. Revealing details of their plans to the public is sort of like making promises, which could undermine their negotiations with private parties like CN and land owners which could result in rail projects costing more than they already do.

I'm going to argue here that the promise is already public.........15 minute, 2-way, all-day service on the central portions of each corridor (excepting Richmond Hill/Bala) has been out in the open since the mid 2010s at very least, and is being pushed, openly by the current government in unending ads I see on social media.

The long-haul (outer terminal points) of most of the same corridors is promised as hourly or better.

There's no secret, CN/CP know exactly what's been promised.

The only things not public are the schedule and the price.

Though, arguably Wynne did post a schedule suggesting the majority of improvements would be in place by 2024-2025.

I'm fine with some private discussion for a few weeks/months while Mx/The province haggle with CN/CP on the details, but thereafter, certainly within a year or two of the initial promises, those deals need to be wrapped up and done.,

At which point they need to be public.

Once the government knows what it needs in terms of expropriation, it can move to buy that land before or at the same time as any public announcement. It can also ensure that the price of the land doesn't inflate by using MZO authorities to freeze the zoning of the sites in question pending acquisition.

But west of Georgetown or east of Bramalea they already own the line so this argument does not apply there.

Mx/GO owns the vast majority of their rail, so as a general principle I'm going to say they have little excuse on openness and transparency.

 

[urbancog]

I was going to write a snarky post about how Metrolinx's 2019 IBC for Kitchener Line expansion made negotiating with CN sound easy but there's been no progress....

But on reflection, there must be at least the framework of an agreement in place now because Metrolinx is expropriating land for the grade separation (Credit East?) and it was stated at a Metrolinx Board Mtg that CN had invited tenders for design work on the Halton sub. Before these $ commitments could be made you'd think an agreement of some sort would need to be signed.

 

[WB62]

Mx/GO owns the vast majority of their rail

Here’s a ownership map for anyone not familiar with what parts of the network are owned by Metrolinx:

The spur on the Lakeshore East Line should be pointing down not up, and should also be to the left of Pickering, that was a mistake I did when I made this

 

[Bojaxs]

Here’s a ownership map for anyone not familiar with what parts of the network are owned by Metrolinx:View attachment 584273
The spur on the Lakeshore East Line should be pointing down not up, and should also be to the left of Pickering, that was a mistake I did when I made this

I wish someone would edit this map to show the dedicated CP & CN tracks as well. This would give people a better layout of the land.

 

[reaperexpress]

I was going to write a snarky post about how Metrolinx's 2019 IBC for Kitchener Line expansion made negotiating with CN sound easy but there's been no progress....

But on reflection, there must be at least the framework of an agreement in place now because Metrolinx is expropriating land for the grade separation (Credit East?) and it was stated at a Metrolinx Board Mtg that CN had invited tenders for design work on the Halton sub. Before these $ commitments could be made you'd think an agreement of some sort would need to be signed.

Yeah I think it's safe to assume that some agreement has been signed with CN regarding future GO service levels otherwise they wouldn't have proceeded with the upgrades west of Bramalea

 

[WB62]

I wish someone would edit this map to show the dedicated CP & CN tracks as well. This would give people a better layout of the land.

I made that map, what would you like to see me do with it?

 

[Bojaxs]

I made that map, what would you like to see me do with it?

Can you show the dedicated CN & CP tracks as well? Using the same colour coding method, of course. Show CP's midtown line, CN's Halton & York sub, etc.

 

[WB62]

Can you show the dedicated CN & CP tracks as well? Using the same colour coding method, of course. Show CP's midtown line, CN's Halton & York sub, etc.

Yeah I can look into doing that

 

[reaperexpress]

I wish someone would edit this map to show the dedicated CP & CN tracks as well. This would give people a better layout of the land.

I think that adding lines that GO doesn't use would undermine the purpose of this map, which is to show the ownership of the railway lines that GO uses. The stations already give plenty of geographical information about where the ownership changes.

For a general lay of the land, what you want is a GTHA railway map including all railways (not just CN, CP and GO). Which is fine but that's a different type of map.

The Railway Atlas of Canada already provides a great railway map for the GTA:

 

[innsertnamehere]

Rail Atlas still shows the now-defunct YDHR owning the Stouffville corridor to Uxbridge, which has never been the case. Metrolinx has always owned the corridor since they bought the rest of the corridor from CN years ago. YDHR was responsible for maintenence of the corridor as it was the only user, but Metrolinx owns it and will likely rip up the tracks over the next few years now that YDHR is no longer operating.

 

[crs1026]

Rail Atlas still shows the now-defunct YDHR owning the Stouffville corridor to Uxbridge, which has never been the case. Metrolinx has always owned the corridor since they bought the rest of the corridor from CN years ago. YDHR was responsible for maintenence of the corridor as it was the only user, but Metrolinx owns it and will likely rip up the tracks over the next few years now that YDHR is no longer operating.

I believe the Atlas is intended to show the current operator as opposed to the owner of the asset. Certainly YDHr has folded and the map needs updating to reflect that, but the correction should really be to show "inactive" rather than "ML".

- Paul

 

[bpbpbpbp]

Rail Atlas still shows the now-defunct YDHR owning the Stouffville corridor to Uxbridge, which has never been the case. Metrolinx has always owned the corridor since they bought the rest of the corridor from CN years ago. YDHR was responsible for maintenence of the corridor as it was the only user, but Metrolinx owns it and will likely rip up the tracks over the next few years now that YDHR is no longer operating.

I feel like this is a mistake, MX should keep the corridor ready with a provision for a potential Uxbridge extension. Maybe that is just wishful thinking and me not wanting to see any rail removed, and it isn't even viable.

 

[ARG1]

I feel like this is a mistake, MX should keep the corridor ready with a provision for a potential Uxbridge extension. Maybe that is just wishful thinking and me not wanting to see any rail removed, and it isn't even viable.

It was listed as a potential future corridor in various late 2000s studies, but I imagine whatever plans they had are shelved.