[drum118]

After implementing TPS, they'll seriously have to consider knocking down some of the stations. There's too many stops on Line 6. Got to allow the trams to pick up some speed between stations.


Apparently it's an ongoing issue with the Alstom Citadis Spirits. Go back a few pages and I asked the same question. There's an issue where the doors are prone to malfunction if they're opened and closed too many times within a short time span. So they just opt to leave them open at every station.



The C-trains in Calgary still utilise the door buttons. I remember the first time I rode a C-train in Calgary a couple years ago. When the train pulled up to the platform ,I positioned myself in front of the door and stood there waiting for it to open for me. After about 5 seconds, another rider behind me moved up next to me and pressed the door button to open the door. I guess at that point I showed how "Toronto" I was. I expect doors to just open for me.

Thankfully it was a freezing cold winter day. I had my face all covered up so the other folks couldn't see the dumbfounded look on my face as I stood there on the platform assessing what I just witnessed.

All systems I have ridden in NA and Europe, I must press the button to get on/off while TTC does for it riders. There are time a rider will push the button either on the LRV or wanting on after the door has close to get on or off. Even ION requires you to push the button along with Buffalo and Detroit doing the same thing that only a few hours from us.

 

[not_taylor]

Just wanted to share my experience from riding Line 6 east at 17:45 on Saturday December 20. I rode the full eastbound service and the service was significantly improved versus opening day.

I observed the driver operating the vehicle more comfortably than before, with the vehicle reaching the full speed limit of 50-60 between intersections. Additionally, the driver slowed to just 30-35 at intersections and sped up after the front of the vehicle passed the halfway point of the intersection (technically violating the 25 km/h policy). The vehicle operated ahead of schedule for most of the route and observations show the schedule is extremely padded off-peak.

I recorded the stop arrival and departure times versus the scheduled times as well as light dwells and schedule padding holds.

Stop Name	Arrive	Depart	Scheduled	Light dwell	Schedule dwell
Humber College		17:45​	17:45​
Westmore	17:48​	17:48​	17:48​
Martin Grove	17:49​	17:49​	17:52​
Albion	17:52​	17:52​	17:55​	0:02​
Stevenson	17:52​	17:53​	17:56​
Mount Olive	17:55​	17:59​	17:58​	0:01​	0:04​
Rowntree Mills	18:01​	18:02​	18:03​
Pearldale	18:03​	18:03​	18:05​
Duncanwoods	18:04​	18:05​	18:07​
Milvan Rumike	18:07​	18:07​	18:09​	0:02​
Emery	18:10​	18:10​	18:12​	0:01​
Signet Arrow	18:12​	18:13​	18:14​	0:02​
Norfinch Oakdale	18:15​	18:15​	18:18​
Jane and Finch	18:18​	18:18​	18:22​	0:02​
Driftwood	18:19​	18:19​	18:23​
Tobermory	18:20​	18:21​	18:25​
Sentinel	18:23​	18:23​	18:28​	0:01​
Finch West	18:26​		18:31​
Total runtime	0:41​
Total light dwell	0:11​
Total schedule dwell	0:04​
Actual runtime	0:26​

Total end-to-end running time was about 40 mins 30 seconds, even with a 4 min hold from transit control at Mount Olive station and 11 mins worth of red lights.

This trip has improved my confidence in the performance of Line 6 and I think the design is actually fine. You could shave about 11 mins and 1 min off the running time if the city is able to revise the signal programming to permit aggressive TSP and from raised speed limits respectively, plus the 4 mins of schedule dwell giving a possible off-peak running time of 25 mins. I'd say during peak periods you could add 5 mins to that for heavier customer loading and traffic patterns.

This would raise the average speed of Line 6 to 25 km/h during off-peak and 21km/h during peak, which is respectable for light rail. More importantly, it would improve the speed of the LRT to be faster than the bus during almost all periods (except for late evenings).

Unfortunately some aspects of the speed cannot be improved such as during the curves between Humber College and Westmore, between Albion and Mount Olive, and between Sentinel and Finch West. The Alstom Citadis Spirit vehicles seem to not be able to handle curves of any sort and make terrible noises even when going at reduced speeds around them. Ironically, the Flexity Outlooks seem to handle curves in the track with much better comfort and performance.

 

[Voltz]

Rob Ford didn't want LRT interfering with traffic.
Transit enthusiast from a decade ago thought it was more important to have LRT interfere with traffic than for LRT run free from interference from traffic.
If someone would have said - hey Rob, how about building elevated for same price as on-street, he may have supported it.
No doubt, Ford didn't know what to do but he knew what was planned - what we have now - was not going to work and may as well punt the ball by a decade or two until something better is proposed.
(I suspect in Fords mind he thought subway may be warranted, by demand and not just politically, by that time).
I think Ford had the best proposal for Finch of anyone (if we call the talk of subway just rhetoric).

Ford thought that the Scarborough LRT was going to rip up roads and block traffic, no he didn’t know anything.

 

[Bordercollie]

After implementing TPS, they'll seriously have to consider knocking down some of the stations. There's too many stops on Line 6. Got to allow the trams to pick up some speed between stations.


Apparently it's an ongoing issue with the Alstom Citadis Spirits. Go back a few pages and I asked the same question. There's an issue where the doors are prone to malfunction if they're opened and closed too many times within a short time span. So they just opt to leave them open at every station.



The C-trains in Calgary still utilise the door buttons. I remember the first time I rode a C-train in Calgary a couple years ago. When the train pulled up to the platform ,I positioned myself in front of the door and stood there waiting for it to open for me. After about 5 seconds, another rider behind me moved up next to me and pressed the door button to open the door. I guess at that point I showed how "Toronto" I was. I expect doors to just open for me.

Thankfully it was a freezing cold winter day. I had my face all covered up so the other folks couldn't see the dumbfounded look on my face as I stood there on the platform assessing what I just witnessed.

The distance between the stations is not the issue. If the downtown streetcars can go 50-55 kmph with even shorter stops there is no reason why the Finch LRT cannot.

Also if they made an announcement at each stop press the green button for the door to open. Then that's enough.

Eventually people will figure it out. I tried to ride it from end to end but it was too painful, and cold. Even though today wasn't even that cold. The only other time I felt cold on the street car is with the CLRV's heater was broken and it was -25C outside.

Opening all doors for 3 minutes to let 3 people get off makes no sense. And then trecking along at 30-35kmph also makes no sense. As soon as it hits 50 the operator coasts to the next station and slowly comes to a stop at the red light and then slowly crosses the intersection to the station.

That's 3 minutes at the traffic light, 45-60 to cross the intersection and come back a stop and then 3 minutes at the stop.

It makes no sense

 

[PL1]

I agree that people should have to use the buttons to open the doors on line 6, but also on the legacy streetcars. And I'd like to see some sort of a lock-out after some time (20s-30s?) after which pressing the outside button will no longer open the door.

 

[Bordercollie]

I agree that people should have to use the buttons to open the doors on line 6, but also on the legacy streetcars. And I'd like to see some sort of a lock-out after some time (20s-30s?) after which pressing the outside button will no longer open the door.

Yup. If you miss your chance get off at the new stop. The only one that shouldn't have a lock out is the handicap one.

 

[ARG1]

Why do they keep the doors open at stations when nobody is getting on or off? I think instead you should have to press the button for the door to open.

Its worth pointing out that these are the same trains that are used in Ottawa - the city which had a problem for a while with doors getting jammed whenever someone tried to hold them open (and as a resulted permanently halted rolling out door open buttons). I wouldn't be surprised if part of that bled over here.

 

[Bordercollie]

Its worth pointing out that these are the same trains that are used in Ottawa - the city which had a problem for a while with doors getting jammed whenever someone tried to hold them open (and as a resulted permanently halted rolling out door open buttons). I wouldn't be surprised if part of that bled over here.

Different systems, different ridership. Can't paint everything with the same brush.

 

[yurt2022]

Different systems, different ridership. Can't paint everything with the same brush.

And wouldn't these issues been rectified by the time Line 6 opened??

 

[ssiguy2]

Until this line get to, at maximum, 25 minutes then it's been a waste of time. Of course even 20 minutes is more than possible if the TTC stopped being afraid of hitting every unexpecting mosquito, Chow finally puts her money where her transit loving mouth is and does 100% transit priority so the train NEVER stops for a light, and the City holds meetings stating that at least 4, preferable 6, of these stations must close to turn this into the RAPID transit it was sold as being.

 

[chrisw]

This is probably why we also had to tape big "PUSH" stickers to the yellow bars on the rear doors of buses, so maybe we should add a sticker below the button that says "PUSH TO OPEN WHEN LIT"

To be fair, there are also bus doors that require you to wave to open.

 

[Westey]

If you flip the concern over LRT's meeting cars at grade and thus slowing vehicular traffic, to see it as cars meeting LRT at grade and thus slowing transit operations (i.e having to stop at intersections), Ford and Mammo's concerns were quite explicitly about slow travel speeds, they just emphasized the impact a street running line would have on a different road user than you would typically emphasize.

For all the attacks on their intelligence Ford and the like endured for opposing Transit City and the viability of street-running LRT in Toronto, he sure was more right in the end than every planning and engineering "professional" who giddily cheered these farces along. Turns out just watching current operations (the downtown streetcars) gets you a clearer picture than a 1000 page business case based moreso in recollections of a Euro vacation spent riding trams than actual reality.

If 2011 Ford would have won the fight.

1. Eglinton LRT grade-separated from Mount Dennis to STC. (probably opening imminent - similar to now).
2. Finch LRT. cancelled/ppd.
3. Ontario Line - same as now.
4. Eglinton West LRT - same as now.
5. Yonge Subway - same as now.
6. B-D extension - cancelled. not needed as the combined Eglinton-Scarborough LRT would have served the purposed.
7. Possibly Sheppard Subway (to STC + Downsview) would be more advanced than what Sheppard is now. (Downsview more likely priority to compensate the West end for Finch transit cancellation).

If David Millers Transit City was successful.

1. We'd have Finch, Don Mills, Sheppard, Scarborough Malvern, Jane, Eglntion West LRT and Eglntion Central/East LRT and SRT replacement all complete.
2. All but SRT would be travelling at 12 km/h.
3. The Relief Line would still be in discussions - as since Don Mills LRT built it seems pointless to build a discontinuous stub line from Pape to City Hall.

 

[urbanclient]

TTC doesn't want to insult "dumb" riders when they just stand there waiting for the doors to open. Shouting through the speaker doesn't help cause either they never seen a button, their IQ is too low or they simply don't understand English. They had the whole decade top educate everyone on the downtown streetcar system but chose to simply let everyone inside freeze instead. Of course the TTC can't run a educational campaign properly either.

Guess what, I'm not French and I figured out how to open the doors within seconds just by watching the Parisiens. Not a single instructional sign saying how to open the door.
I guess I must be a 200 IQ genius...That or Torontonians are truly (seen as) stupid.

 

[Steve X]

Guess what, I'm not French and I figured out how to open the doors within seconds just by watching the Parisiens. Not a single instructional sign saying how to open the door.
I guess I must be a 200 IQ genius...That or Torontonians are truly (seen as) stupid.

View attachment 704512View attachment 704518

Never underestimate how stupid some can get.

I would say if they can't figure it out, just leave without them and ignore their complains.

 

[urbanclient]

Never underestimate how stupid some can get.

I would say if they can't figure it out, just leave without them and ignore their complains.

As an aside, Paris metro trains often can be opened well before they fully stop. It's quite possible to jump off a moving train. Imagine the pearl clutching on Toronto news.

New passenger-operated subway doors mean more comfortable temperatures, but are they safe? Transit safety experts say no.
*Cue old U of T prof saying exactly what the news wants them to say.*