SarcasticMarmot
Active Member
Noticed this is yet another Calgary project coming in part from their Municipal Land Corp., definitely feels like a mistake for Edmonton to not set one up.
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BASE
Active Member
It's impossible not to compare. That render is gorgeous. They really are on a hot streak down south and while I don't think they're arena will be any better than ours they certainly are kicking us around in the convention center & library segments which are two we should reasonably be able to compete with.
Kosy123
Senior Member
I've always considered Calgary to be Albertan Toronto so it makes sense that they're focusing on their strengths when it comes to their urban fabric, which is a corporate downtown based on attracting that certain demographic.Exactly, so if we can get some better architectural and urban design for our mid-rise projects here (wink wink), and 6-8 storey buildings keep popping off in and around downtown, we might have something going here
On the other hand, we're Albertan Montreal. We have the capability to have a vibrant downtown that matches and exceeds them, but it comes down to less corporate presence and culture but more towards other strengths that we have over Calgary, notably the large post-secondary population, much better future transit connectivity, and having a less hostile pedestrian/foot traffic environment to continue attracting development. Montreal's the city to follow for us as a model rather than constantly looking down to Calgary.
Doesn't mean I don't want us to not build more high-rises.
Offworld
Active Member
Ok, you just about made me spew my G&T in laughter! Albertan Montreal? Puh-leez. Albertan Winnipeg maybe, or perhaps Albertan Prince George, or Albertan Saskatoon.
Kosy123
Senior Member
I mean it's not a wildly crazy comparison. Both cities had strong economic headwinds in the 1950s and 70's. Both were the economic centre of the province or their respective region until the rise of a different financial centre taking the spot with a corporate exodus for both cities. Both were languishing economically in the 1990s to early 2000s from either external factors (oil glut/separatism) or decisions made by the provincial government (Klein cuts or the referendum/language policies). Both had stagnating demographics in the 1990s as evidenced by the 1996 census. Both have municipal politics that consistently and constantly are butting heads with their respective provincial governments. Both have similar housing stock with a stronger emphasis on rentals for their housing stock. Both cities have weirdly better transit policies and zoning policies than their counterparts.
Like it's not difficult to make comparisons between the two cities once you start looking at the socio-economic history and data of the two cities.
JNO1
Active Member
All right OEG/Katz Group, over to you. Whattya got?
Whatup
Active Member
Agree - I remember when the downtown library was built and I couldn't believe the city admin would allow something like that to be built in such an important place. Edmonton will never be as wealthy as Calgary but it is still a wealthy mid-sized city in this country and is the capital of Alberta, and there should be a much better effort by city admin and developers to create appealing projects. I still can't believe the downtown library was allowed to be built - who approved it?
Whatup
Active Member
Edmonton is more of a Ottawa/Hamilton - heavily reliant on government and industry. Calgary is a business city that does a lot more to attract investment, IT investment etc. Calgary is a corporate town and has been much more focused on attracting HQ to their city than Edmonton and has been since Turner Valley oil discovery. Edmonton used its federal government connections to become provincial capital and then get the UofA - this strategy served Edmonton well and it was Alberta's primate city for many decades, but it was only a matter of time until the more private sector focused city became the province's primate city and this happened several decades ago. These days the gap continues to grow between the two cities. Or maybe a good comparison is New Orleans - a large petrochemical industry with refineries, a privileged public sector that has a lot of power, a more liberally minded outlook surrounded by conservatives (North Louisiana).
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Oilguy
Active Member
Yeah the self loathing here and p**** envy of everything Calgary often seen here is not super constructive. We are different cities. Full stop. The announcements around the new arena are very similar to ours - who cares if they are taller. Ours were/are what the market needed and could bear. We have to stop trying to compare ourselves to that but instead drive what our market and circumstances need.
I for one have forgone many potential moves to Calgary, for lots of reasons. Let’s embrace who we are, what we can be and hold high standards for what we will do, as opposed to worrying about a different city doing something different that fills their market.
Edmcowboy11
Senior Member
Let's fill up the core first with midrise beautiful, unique buildings first, then we can go for height when there isn't room anymore.
Seamusmuldrew
Active Member
Agreed with many points. While I love the Stantec Tower, seeing empty lots very close by makes such a tall building questionable given why tall buildings were traditionally built (but obviously it is not that simple). Not to pick on a fellow Great Plains city, but Oklahoma City might soon have the tallest building in the Western Hemisphere (dubious) but much of their downtown still looks like this:
Point being that filling up our downtown with mid rise and high rise in the 20-30 storey category first will be much more important to having a good downtown than two very tall hotels, and we should refocus on building up when there are fewer places to go.
Point being that filling up our downtown with mid rise and high rise in the 20-30 storey category first will be much more important to having a good downtown than two very tall hotels, and we should refocus on building up when there are fewer places to go.
Whatup
Active Member
Edmonton is basically a large union town - good stable unionized public jobs in health care, government and the university. Of course there is a private sector and petro chemicals element that is very important, but the public sector jobs form the backbone. Calgary is a private sector corporate city and has been for a long long time - its much more competitive than Edmonton, it appreciates and strives for international recognition because in a globalized market it knows the importance of being recognized and therefore ensures its city infrastructure (airport, convention center, hotels, public transit etc) are constructed and coordinated to support its mission and goal of being an internationally recognized global city. The civic leaders in Edmonton are very comfortable, don't crave global prominence as much as Calgary's civic leaders, are less willing to take risks and are not as skilled in this realm when compared to Calgary's leaders. Most of Edmonton's mayors have been much less concerned with being "pro-business" than Calgary's leaders. Honesty, is anyone really surprised that Calgary is so far ahead of Edmonton on many levels? Edmonton is a very nice city with a high quality of life and its relatively large population for a Canadian city ensures it has almost equal level of services, entertainment, shopping and cultural options as Calgary. Its not possible for a province the size of Alberta to have two alpha dog cities. I think most Edmontonians are happy with what it is and this is reflected in who they vote for in civic, provincial and federal elections.
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MacLac
Senior Member
They've got 3 towers that are going to be under construction by next year to be finished by 2028....
MacLac
Senior Member
I am ok with our Convention Center and Expo center - together they are doing just fine. They needed a new one - so they built one. As far as their Library- and ours for that matter - just really expensive public bath houses.
IanO
Superstar
Sure, but it's in a different league and they will continue to see massive benefits from it.
Edmonton's convention centre continues to underwhelm and does not even have a direct-connect hotel which excludes us from bidding on many, many events/conferences.
Edmonton's convention centre continues to underwhelm and does not even have a direct-connect hotel which excludes us from bidding on many, many events/conferences.