Coprolite
Active Member
A Honda Fit, even. She was car-free before buying that in 2018. But usually when I run into her in the riding, she's walking.
This isn't to say that the party doesn't have a strong NIMBY/car-brained wing, but it's not her.
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- Thread starter KyleBlanchett
- Start date
This isn't to say that the party doesn't have a strong NIMBY/car-brained wing, but it's not her.
Coprolite
Active Member
They did fund LRT expansion in Edmonton and Calgary during their tenure. But admittedly they are often not as urbanist as I would like them to be, and there is a certain NIMBYness within the base.
Coprolite
Active Member
It would be more of a curiosity than a game-changer. It offers so very little in terms of real world advantages over technology that already exists (especially for the Edmonton-Calgary context), and poses significant disadvantages in terms of cost and complexity (like just safely getting people in and out of the thing in the station, let alone rescuing from a pod mid-trip). I mean presuming you use the most optimistic figures presented and that track is absolutely perfect and there are no turns (because according to the Virgin Hyperloop folks that would've meant reducing speeds to 360km/h for comfort and safety), it's saving approximately 20 minutes over a modern maglev train, because passenger comfort and safety remains the limit on acceleration and deceleration.
Oh, except at either end you have to do a thing where you safely transition the environment between 0 atmospheres and 1 atmosphere. And you probably REALLY want airport style security in this thing because a bomb on board is going to destroy a lot more than just the one pod that's carrying it.
For any route involving a stop in Red Deer or any of the airports, the travel time advantages/disadvantages are even worse.
erudyk_29
Active Member
^This
The advantages of Hyperloop are small when compared to MagLev or even regular HSR not to mention all the other issues with safety and the unknown of building and testing an entirely new technology, I personally think that the EDM-CGY route shouldn't even be MagLev (though it would be cool) regular High Speed Rail is the best option for this route IMO. MagLev is just that much more expensive for relatively small gains when considering acceleration, deceleration and cornering. It's really only worth it for extremely high traffic routes (like say Tokyo to Osaka, where they currently are building a MagLev train). This Hyperloop project is in my opinion, just distracting from what we should actually be building here, regular, run of the mill High Speed Rail.
The advantages of Hyperloop are small when compared to MagLev or even regular HSR not to mention all the other issues with safety and the unknown of building and testing an entirely new technology, I personally think that the EDM-CGY route shouldn't even be MagLev (though it would be cool) regular High Speed Rail is the best option for this route IMO. MagLev is just that much more expensive for relatively small gains when considering acceleration, deceleration and cornering. It's really only worth it for extremely high traffic routes (like say Tokyo to Osaka, where they currently are building a MagLev train). This Hyperloop project is in my opinion, just distracting from what we should actually be building here, regular, run of the mill High Speed Rail.
Coprolite
Active Member
Hell, if there were a just reasonably fast train that would get me from core to core in approximately three hours and it had decent service frequency, I would take that option literally 100% of the time, and not hate going to Calgary with the heat of a thousand dying suns. Just to get there comparably fast, but be able to spend those three hours in a space where I can get up and walk around, use an acceptable bathroom, eat breakfast, read, nap, or just stare out at the landscape and contemplate the past movements of glaciers would be a game changer. Even if it cost twice as much as the gas to drive, it would be so much more wonderful than having to be constantly hyper-vigilant for those three hours lest Bingus Numpty accidentally spill his Timmy's into his crotch while texting and driving at 160km/h resulting in loss of control of his giant pickup truck.
kcantor
Senior Member
Or where the money is…
archited
Senior Member
Apparently people didn't when that service existed in prior years (Dayliner history).
Depends on the radius of the turns (comparable to banking and turning in an aircraft). The flat Prairie gives lots of options for large turning radiuses.
The atmospheric pressure inside the pod would not change from the outdoor pressure at any station -- the air density on the leading edge of the pod (outside the pod and inside the enclosing tube) would be reduced relative to the pressure behind the pods forward direction to reduce friction and add to forward momentum -- that is where the partial vacuum comes in.
I would imagine that the Red Deer route would be optional and not factor into Edmonton-to-Calgary express routes. On the other hand, imagine living in Red Deer and working in Edmonton where the major commute is only 20 minutes -- I could see that being a workable option for many folks (small City life; big City employment).
Gronk!
Senior Member
Was the Dayliner really an Edmonton-Calgary express rail service? I assume it would have stopped at every light bulb along the way.
archited
Senior Member
I love your off-key expressions @Gronk! -- they always make me smile. There were eight 2-minute stops along the way -- this article sort of hits all of the points -- https://www.ponokanews.com/communit...new-train-down-at-the-ponoka-station-6682689# -- for my part I was referring to @Coprolite's notion that he wouldn't mind a 3-hour trip between Edmonton and Calgary.
chrisvazquez7
Active Member
Also please remember the Dayliner existed at a time when the corridor was not as populous, people were more car crazy, and had little appetite for anything other than suburban living. Also the Dayliner service itself left a lot to be desired, mainly in frequency and reliability. Saying it didn’t work then, doesn’t mean it wouldn’t work now
Coprolite
Active Member
Actually, I do. While I understand that at one point it could do the run in 3.5 hours back in 1955, that CP proceeded to vigorously neglect the service and constantly lobby for its discontinuation because they did not want to support passenger rail at all on the corridor, even if VIA was running it. I also understand that the Budd RDC equipment was rather noisy and less than comfortable even back in its day and would be a far cry from something like a modern regional train like the Stadler Flirt. Also, the Dayliner was frequently involved in collisions because the track just wasn't that great. Also, the service was anything but frequent.
There's certainly plenty of room to do better the Dayliner could manage without going with all up HSR, and maybe just a bit more of a market nowadays.
The actual terrain is a bit more complex than our stereotypes would suggest, even before we get to all of the built stuff along the direct path between the two.
I've attached a rendering from Transpod's website of how they envision one of their stations. I'm not talking about the pod pressure changing: that would be bad. I'm talking about how they picture getting people into and out of the pods.
It will be interesting to engineer a system where the pod is switched from the main line to the station siding without letting all of the air into the tube.
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Coprolite
Active Member
It could at one point actually manage the run in 3.5 hours back when it was introduced, with its top operating speed being noted as 85mph. It was never frequent, though, nor was it a particularly great ride. Technically, even though it ran on rails, the Budd RDC equipment they used didn't really fulfil the minimum definition of a train. Stopped in Didsbury, Olds, Innisfail, Red Deer and Wetaskiwin.
archited
Senior Member
You rode the Dayliner? I did, several times... it was actually fun in my opinion. And I like the concept that it fed into communities along the way -- I took it on occasions to visit relatives in Ponoka (from Edmonton); I took it once to Red Deer to meet up with friends doing a short stacay at Sylvan Lake where they had a lakeside cabin; and I also took it to Calgary once during Stampede Week (other than the chuck-wagon races, I didn't see a reason for going back for that event -- I more enjoyed the atmosphere and the closeness of the Edmonton Finals Rodeo at the onetime Edmonton Gardens). It was only inconsistent in that it had to accommodate freight priorities (other rail traffic). At the time the main reason for cancelling was that Dayliner was unable to compete on the full Edmonton-to-Calgary route with the airlines (the planes could match the fare and get you there in greatly expedited time (the so-called Air Bus) -- these were the days before rigorous safety check-ins and where one didn't have to plan or pre-purchase an airfare for that particular route). I don't believe HSR is a viable alternative, economically speaking, to other forms of transportation that would take one from Edmonton City Centre to Calgary City Centre -- way too expensive for the population that it would serve; I could see a new milk-run reprised in support of smaller communities on the Ed-Cal corridor (but that's not HSR), especially as these communities grow and catalyzing an important factor in their growth. I could also see Hyperloop working (I don't believe the engineering is all that daunting) because it would be a new and different experience with lots of side potentials (holographic experiences; super high speed -- being able to live in one City and work in the other -- expedited commutes; a world-first in its functional build out (yay Edmonton; yay Alberta); a good energy deployment (remember the propulsion system is well-tested Maglev, only assisted by a partial vacuum in the leading edge of movement) that is electricity based and partially recovered in the braking operation; expense-shared with freight runs (operationally); and a good test run for other possibilities -- freight dispersion from the port of Prince Rupert to Edmonton which could then be an exceptional transportation hub for western (and eastern, eventually) freight movement throughout North America, based at EIA. I have not yet heard a good positive argument for HSR, nor have I heard a reasoned argument to halt the Hyperloop experiment.
Coprolite
Active Member
I apologize for taking you seriously, but concede that if "hyperloop" were anything but vapourware it would move fewer people than HSR in about the same amount of time from gate to gate while still costing at least twice as much as maglev, using the most optimistic details available.
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archited
Senior Member
Apology accepted.